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> Iran and Hamas firing missiles and rockets into population centers is a war crime too. So is their embedding and use of civilians. The entire strategy of Isra

> Iran and Hamas firing missiles and rockets into population centers is a war crime too. So is their embedding and use of civilians. The entire strategy of Israel's opponents in the middle east is to engage in war crimes. Where do we place Israel on that scale? I feel like you're moving the target now. Those are your words above. But yes, if your scale is that of the western world then harsh criticism of Israel's war crimes should be expected and welcome. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, maybe you did mean something along those lines and I'm misinterpreting.

YZF 1y ago
It it absolutely fair to criticize Israel the same way that e.g Canada, the US, the UK, France etc. were criticized during their war on the Islamic State. Let's get some scale here. - Probably more than 160K killed in this war. Maybe half civilians. - Siege and constant bombardment/destruction of cities like Mosul. - Millions of civilians displaced. - Many war crimes by western powers. This was in response to what? A few westerners beheaded? Terrorist attacks killing a few dozen people? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State Can you really say honestly that the amount of criticism Israel is attracting due to its war in Gaza and the circumstances are comparable? This might just be me but I don't recall huge rallies against the war. I don't recall much negative media coverage. I don't recall anyone held accountable for war crimes. I don't recall the ICC being involved. Yes, the US bombings of random weddings in Afghanistan with Predator drones and air to surface missiles, or bombing hospitals has occasionally drawn some weak protest. Nothing at the scale of the anti-Israeli sentiment. This isn't what-about-ism. It's not ok to bomb a wedding and it's not ok to fire into a crowd of people trying to get food. But there is no comparison of the sentiment and focus.
- acdha 1y ago
  You can’t talk about ISIS in isolation from the U.S. invasion of Iraq which gave Zarqawi the ability to grow so much. That had enormous protests, tons of criticism for the massive civilian death toll, and plenty of negative media coverage. By the time the Islamic system was at its height, most of the reaction was muted in the backdrop of Syria’s civil war and the U.S. failure in Iraq leaving few people jumping to commit more troops into unfriendly territory. In contrast, Israel controls Gaza and has no willingness to give up that control and ownership follows that.
  - YZF 1y ago
    Israel did give up Gaza and gave Palestinians full control of it, and a border with Egypt they controlled, in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the... Yes, everything can be litigated to the beginning of time, WW-2, WW-1, the Romans. But the fact still stands that all those "moral" countries didn't hesitate to lay siege, starve people, bomb civilians, for tbh little reason. I don't recall hearing even crickets protest. Why can't the "Islamic State" have their own country? Sure their culture of beheading and kidnapping Yazidi as slaves is a bit weird but come on.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      > Israel did give up Gaza and gave Palestinians full control of it From the very first paragraph in your own link: > Since then, the United Nations, many other international humanitarian and legal organizations, and most academic commentators have continued to regard the Gaza Strip as being under Israeli occupation ... "Full control" - except over their border, their imports, their airspace, their electromagnetic frequencies, their coastline, their construction industry, etc etc. > WW-2, WW-1, the Romans. But the fact still stands that all those "moral" countries didn't hesitate to lay siege, starve people, bomb civilians, for tbh little reason. ... If you're taking the Romans and WW-2 as your baseline for morality, that would start to explain things.
      - YZF 1y ago
        I'm sorry but you're just wrong. The reasons the UN and others still regarded Gaza as under Israeli occupation are either political or technical. In practice when Israel left Gazans got full control. They had a border with Egypt, not to mention tunnels for smuggling goods under that border. They had enough control to build a large army, tunnels, rockets etc. I.e. they had control. They were able to send people to train in Iran. This anti-Israeli argument that somehow Israel dismantled its settlements and left but yet still "occupied" Gaza is nonsense. It does not stand any minimal scrutiny. Yes, as a result of Gazans making a choice to engage in war with Israel there was a blockade over that territory. That's about it. Do you expect Israel to allow them to import tanks and jets?
- ath3nd 1y ago
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  - YZF 1y ago
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    - ath3nd 1y ago
      > Israel's war in Gaza is what any western country would be doing in response to the Oct 7th attack All I hear is twisting of the truth, not surprising from an apartheid genocidal regime. Let's look at the statistics before Oct 7-th, for the years 2008-2020: https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/ https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-cas... - 5590 dead Palestinians - 250 dead Israeli And, the most recent ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war - 56772 Palestinians - 1706 Israeli What else is there to say? Your genocidal government is: - Withholding humanitarian aid (war crime): https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-attacks-kill-least-21-people-gaza-medics-say-2025-06-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-attacks-ki... - Shooting at civilians and children (war crime): https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_fatally_shoot_13_year_old_palestinian_boy_in_the_back_near_ramallah https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_fatally_shoot_1... - Bombing hospitals (war crime): https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jvx3yjg3o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jvx3yjg3o - Yoav Gallant called the Palestinians "human animals", which, ironically, is similar to what the Nazis were calling the Jews during WW2: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ReZEJPwrM1k https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ReZEJPwrM1k - Using starvation as a weapon (war crime): https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0k3d1y10pzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0k3d1y10pzo. > Israeli soldiers, attacks Israeli civilians (there are still occasional rockets fired out of Gaza). Maybe don't use your civilians as human shields then. Why is your military next to your civilians? See how that works? > Israel does not "annex territories" not belonging to them. Israel e.g. returned Sinai to Egypt. Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005. Israel in negotiations with Palestinians created the Palestinian Authority and gave it control of large swaths of territory. They do, illegally occupying and expanding on land that doesn't belong to them https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1j5954edlno https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1j5954edlno So, everything you said is a lie, which is 100% expected from a supporter of a genocidal state
- int_19h 1y ago
  The was on ISIS wasn't waged exclusively or even mainly by the West. It was waged on the ground primarily by the local armed forces - Iraqi army in Iraq, YPG militias in both Iraq and Syria etc - who were actively resisting the attempts to take over their communities by force and in some cases outright genocide them. The West provided active military support including air strikes and occasional on-the-ground assistance, but you can't reduce the reasons for that war to "a few westerners beheaded"; you have to look at the totality of crimes against humanity perpetrated by ISIS on its occupied territories to get a comprehensive casus belli on behalf of the opposing forces primarily responsible for all the destruction.

YZF 1y ago

It it absolutely fair to criticize Israel the same way that e.g Canada, the US, the UK, France etc. were criticized during their war on the Islamic State. Let's get some scale here. - Probably more than 160K killed in this war. Maybe half civilians. - Siege and constant bombardment/destruction of cities like Mosul. - Millions of civilians displaced. - Many war crimes by western powers. This was in response to what? A few westerners beheaded? Terrorist attacks killing a few dozen people? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State Can you really say honestly that the amount of criticism Israel is attracting due to its war in Gaza and the circumstances are comparable? This might just be me but I don't recall huge rallies against the war. I don't recall much negative media coverage. I don't recall anyone held accountable for war crimes. I don't recall the ICC being involved. Yes, the US bombings of random weddings in Afghanistan with Predator drones and air to surface missiles, or bombing hospitals has occasionally drawn some weak protest. Nothing at the scale of the anti-Israeli sentiment. This isn't what-about-ism. It's not ok to bomb a wedding and it's not ok to fire into a crowd of people trying to get food. But there is no comparison of the sentiment and focus.

acdha 1y ago
You can’t talk about ISIS in isolation from the U.S. invasion of Iraq which gave Zarqawi the ability to grow so much. That had enormous protests, tons of criticism for the massive civilian death toll, and plenty of negative media coverage. By the time the Islamic system was at its height, most of the reaction was muted in the backdrop of Syria’s civil war and the U.S. failure in Iraq leaving few people jumping to commit more troops into unfriendly territory. In contrast, Israel controls Gaza and has no willingness to give up that control and ownership follows that.
- YZF 1y ago
  Israel did give up Gaza and gave Palestinians full control of it, and a border with Egypt they controlled, in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the... Yes, everything can be litigated to the beginning of time, WW-2, WW-1, the Romans. But the fact still stands that all those "moral" countries didn't hesitate to lay siege, starve people, bomb civilians, for tbh little reason. I don't recall hearing even crickets protest. Why can't the "Islamic State" have their own country? Sure their culture of beheading and kidnapping Yazidi as slaves is a bit weird but come on.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    > Israel did give up Gaza and gave Palestinians full control of it From the very first paragraph in your own link: > Since then, the United Nations, many other international humanitarian and legal organizations, and most academic commentators have continued to regard the Gaza Strip as being under Israeli occupation ... "Full control" - except over their border, their imports, their airspace, their electromagnetic frequencies, their coastline, their construction industry, etc etc. > WW-2, WW-1, the Romans. But the fact still stands that all those "moral" countries didn't hesitate to lay siege, starve people, bomb civilians, for tbh little reason. ... If you're taking the Romans and WW-2 as your baseline for morality, that would start to explain things.
    - YZF 1y ago
      I'm sorry but you're just wrong. The reasons the UN and others still regarded Gaza as under Israeli occupation are either political or technical. In practice when Israel left Gazans got full control. They had a border with Egypt, not to mention tunnels for smuggling goods under that border. They had enough control to build a large army, tunnels, rockets etc. I.e. they had control. They were able to send people to train in Iran. This anti-Israeli argument that somehow Israel dismantled its settlements and left but yet still "occupied" Gaza is nonsense. It does not stand any minimal scrutiny. Yes, as a result of Gazans making a choice to engage in war with Israel there was a blockade over that territory. That's about it. Do you expect Israel to allow them to import tanks and jets?
ath3nd 1y ago
[flagged]
- YZF 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ath3nd 1y ago
    > Israel's war in Gaza is what any western country would be doing in response to the Oct 7th attack All I hear is twisting of the truth, not surprising from an apartheid genocidal regime. Let's look at the statistics before Oct 7-th, for the years 2008-2020: https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/ https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-cas... - 5590 dead Palestinians - 250 dead Israeli And, the most recent ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war - 56772 Palestinians - 1706 Israeli What else is there to say? Your genocidal government is: - Withholding humanitarian aid (war crime): https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-attacks-kill-least-21-people-gaza-medics-say-2025-06-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-attacks-ki... - Shooting at civilians and children (war crime): https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_fatally_shoot_13_year_old_palestinian_boy_in_the_back_near_ramallah https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_fatally_shoot_1... - Bombing hospitals (war crime): https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jvx3yjg3o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jvx3yjg3o - Yoav Gallant called the Palestinians "human animals", which, ironically, is similar to what the Nazis were calling the Jews during WW2: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ReZEJPwrM1k https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ReZEJPwrM1k - Using starvation as a weapon (war crime): https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0k3d1y10pzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0k3d1y10pzo. > Israeli soldiers, attacks Israeli civilians (there are still occasional rockets fired out of Gaza). Maybe don't use your civilians as human shields then. Why is your military next to your civilians? See how that works? > Israel does not "annex territories" not belonging to them. Israel e.g. returned Sinai to Egypt. Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005. Israel in negotiations with Palestinians created the Palestinian Authority and gave it control of large swaths of territory. They do, illegally occupying and expanding on land that doesn't belong to them https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1j5954edlno https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1j5954edlno So, everything you said is a lie, which is 100% expected from a supporter of a genocidal state
int_19h 1y ago
The was on ISIS wasn't waged exclusively or even mainly by the West. It was waged on the ground primarily by the local armed forces - Iraqi army in Iraq, YPG militias in both Iraq and Syria etc - who were actively resisting the attempts to take over their communities by force and in some cases outright genocide them. The West provided active military support including air strikes and occasional on-the-ground assistance, but you can't reduce the reasons for that war to "a few westerners beheaded"; you have to look at the totality of crimes against humanity perpetrated by ISIS on its occupied territories to get a comprehensive casus belli on behalf of the opposing forces primarily responsible for all the destruction.