4 ms·

The information is unverified because Israel does not allow journalists into Gaza.

by quietbritishjim 1y ago

FridayoLeary 1y ago
[flagged]
YZF 1y ago
[flagged]
- asadm 1y ago
  IDF has been actively killing journalists too. So many that this is deadliest war for journalist to report on in recorded history.
  - mahirsaid 1y ago
    This is not a war. War is Ukraine vs Russia.
  - birn559 1y ago
    Could you provide sources? I would assume 'journalists' are only actively killed if they grab a weapon or conduct similar actions. My understanding of "actively killed" is thy have been the explicit target of an attack and not casualties in general.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      News outlets tell Israeli officers where their journalists intend to be, and they wear jackets that identify them as members of the press. Preventing the journalists from dying is really a matter of communicating to each other, and using visual identification before engaging in direct fire. Both the officers and enlisted have the opportunity to cancel an illegitimate fire mission. Something doctrinal is responsible for this behavior. Given the unconscionable number of journalists who died at the IDF's hands, it seems like Israel is indeed using the transparency info from journalists to locate and target them with airstrikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
- bigyabai 1y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_... Israel is the side with Datalink, in case this chart doesn't make it clear.
- tehjoker 1y ago
  So if a journalist decides to wander away from the potemkin village they get denied access. The journalists going on these ridealongs are not doing journalism. This tactic, which america pioneered in response to vietnam war coverage, is designed to only allow journalists who will tell the right kind of narrative.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    It's well-documented what they do to anyone who tries documenting the aftermath: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-filmed-brutally-beating-palestinian-photojournalist-in-east-jerusalem/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-...
    - YZF 1y ago
      This person, a Palestinian, was not attacked for documenting something he wasn't supposed to. That's not the claim in the article. He is said to have documented the "the aftermath of Hamas’s massacre on the Gaza-border communities.” but that doesn't seem to be directly relevant. The context is a protest: "Haruf says he was attacked without cause after leaving a prayer protest broken up by Israeli security forces in the Wadi Joz neighborhood." not the journalistic activities. I'm not justifying this FWIW, just that it doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. If anything the publication of this article in Israel shows Israel has freedom of press. also: "The Border Police later announced that it had suspended the two officers involved in the incident and that the Department of Internal Police Investigations has opened a probe into the matter." There is also followup (again in Israeli press): https://www.timesofisrael.com/border-police-said-to-reinstate-2-officers-filmed-beating-palestinian-journalist/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/border-police-said-to-reinstat... "The Union of Journalists in Israel condemned the incident and said it was “shocked by the violent attack” on Haruf. The union said the incident was “the 37th attack on Arab journalists since the beginning of the war” on October 7, when Hamas-led terrorists launched their murderous assault on southern Israel, killing 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and taking some 240 hostages of all ages. The union, in a December 15 statement, said “most of the attacks [were] carried out by the security forces. This is a reality that dramatically harms freedom of the press and the ability of journalists to perform their duties.”" Is this perfect? no. Is Israeli press generally free, attacks/criticizes the government, brings to light bad things that happen, and follow up on them? yes.
- vFunct 1y ago
  Correct. Israel does not allow a free press. And this is how we know Israel does not believe in democracy and is not a democracy itself, since a free press is a requirement of democracy. Democracy isn't just having elections. Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Russia has elections, too.
  - YZF 1y ago
    The article we're talking about here is published in Israeli media.
    - kylebenzle 1y ago
      Unless what they're really doing is a thousand times worse and this is the propagandized version..
Slava_Propanei 1y ago
[dead]
neepi 1y ago
[flagged]
- woooooo 1y ago
  History is nuanced. Shooting starving people should be one of those moments of clarity that cuts through the narrative.
  - atonse 1y ago
    I think that is what the parent is alluding to, when it comes to waiting for more facts. One of those facts might be intent or misheard orders. It might just be that this actually happened (as a war crime) but it is probably too early to tell. Regardless of what happened, it helps to wait until more info comes out.
    - neepi 1y ago
      Exactly that.
    - woooooo 1y ago
      It's been every day for weeks, there is video.
      - amendegree 1y ago
        There literally isn’t any video of GHF doing it.
    - asacrowflies 1y ago
      How long should we wait? Seems it's always just wait... Until it blows over and can be swept under the rug...again...
- kylebenzle 1y ago
  This is my favorite response from you guys! "Look, children may be dying and maybe we're killing them but we need to verify and we need more time. Because first of all what were they even doing there? Oh and also this is our Land anyways and there were no deaths nobody died there aren't even any children in gaza!"

The information is unverified because Israel does not allow journalists into Gaza.

FridayoLeary 1y ago

[flagged]

YZF 1y ago

[flagged]

asadm 1y ago
IDF has been actively killing journalists too. So many that this is deadliest war for journalist to report on in recorded history.
- mahirsaid 1y ago
  This is not a war. War is Ukraine vs Russia.
- birn559 1y ago
  Could you provide sources? I would assume 'journalists' are only actively killed if they grab a weapon or conduct similar actions. My understanding of "actively killed" is thy have been the explicit target of an attack and not casualties in general.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    News outlets tell Israeli officers where their journalists intend to be, and they wear jackets that identify them as members of the press. Preventing the journalists from dying is really a matter of communicating to each other, and using visual identification before engaging in direct fire. Both the officers and enlisted have the opportunity to cancel an illegitimate fire mission. Something doctrinal is responsible for this behavior. Given the unconscionable number of journalists who died at the IDF's hands, it seems like Israel is indeed using the transparency info from journalists to locate and target them with airstrikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
bigyabai 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_... Israel is the side with Datalink, in case this chart doesn't make it clear.
tehjoker 1y ago
So if a journalist decides to wander away from the potemkin village they get denied access. The journalists going on these ridealongs are not doing journalism. This tactic, which america pioneered in response to vietnam war coverage, is designed to only allow journalists who will tell the right kind of narrative.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  It's well-documented what they do to anyone who tries documenting the aftermath: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-filmed-brutally-beating-palestinian-photojournalist-in-east-jerusalem/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-...
  - YZF 1y ago
    This person, a Palestinian, was not attacked for documenting something he wasn't supposed to. That's not the claim in the article. He is said to have documented the "the aftermath of Hamas’s massacre on the Gaza-border communities.” but that doesn't seem to be directly relevant. The context is a protest: "Haruf says he was attacked without cause after leaving a prayer protest broken up by Israeli security forces in the Wadi Joz neighborhood." not the journalistic activities. I'm not justifying this FWIW, just that it doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. If anything the publication of this article in Israel shows Israel has freedom of press. also: "The Border Police later announced that it had suspended the two officers involved in the incident and that the Department of Internal Police Investigations has opened a probe into the matter." There is also followup (again in Israeli press): https://www.timesofisrael.com/border-police-said-to-reinstate-2-officers-filmed-beating-palestinian-journalist/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/border-police-said-to-reinstat... "The Union of Journalists in Israel condemned the incident and said it was “shocked by the violent attack” on Haruf. The union said the incident was “the 37th attack on Arab journalists since the beginning of the war” on October 7, when Hamas-led terrorists launched their murderous assault on southern Israel, killing 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and taking some 240 hostages of all ages. The union, in a December 15 statement, said “most of the attacks [were] carried out by the security forces. This is a reality that dramatically harms freedom of the press and the ability of journalists to perform their duties.”" Is this perfect? no. Is Israeli press generally free, attacks/criticizes the government, brings to light bad things that happen, and follow up on them? yes.
vFunct 1y ago
Correct. Israel does not allow a free press. And this is how we know Israel does not believe in democracy and is not a democracy itself, since a free press is a requirement of democracy. Democracy isn't just having elections. Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Russia has elections, too.
- YZF 1y ago
  The article we're talking about here is published in Israeli media.
  - kylebenzle 1y ago
    Unless what they're really doing is a thousand times worse and this is the propagandized version..

Slava_Propanei 1y ago

[dead]

neepi 1y ago

[flagged]

woooooo 1y ago
History is nuanced. Shooting starving people should be one of those moments of clarity that cuts through the narrative.
- atonse 1y ago
  I think that is what the parent is alluding to, when it comes to waiting for more facts. One of those facts might be intent or misheard orders. It might just be that this actually happened (as a war crime) but it is probably too early to tell. Regardless of what happened, it helps to wait until more info comes out.
  - neepi 1y ago
    Exactly that.
  - woooooo 1y ago
    It's been every day for weeks, there is video.
    - amendegree 1y ago
      There literally isn’t any video of GHF doing it.
  - asacrowflies 1y ago
    How long should we wait? Seems it's always just wait... Until it blows over and can be swept under the rug...again...
kylebenzle 1y ago
This is my favorite response from you guys! "Look, children may be dying and maybe we're killing them but we need to verify and we need more time. Because first of all what were they even doing there? Oh and also this is our Land anyways and there were no deaths nobody died there aren't even any children in gaza!"