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I'm not sure. I agree that the "law of the jungle" trope seems like an oversimplification. But the fact that cooperation was also present in pre-modern societ

I'm not sure. I agree that the "law of the jungle" trope seems like an oversimplification. But the fact that cooperation was also present in pre-modern societies does not completely refute the point. That's why they are talking about tribes, not just families or individuals. I an not a professional historian or anthropoligist, but the scope and phenomenology of cooperation in ancient societies is not a question with a global, settled answer, as far as I'm concerned. I'm currently reading this book: https://www.amazon.de/R%C3%BCckblick-auf-die-Natur-Geschichte/dp/3948075093 https://www.amazon.de/R%C3%BCckblick-auf-die-Natur-Geschicht... It deals with many of these topics, especially the transition from hunter-gatherer societies to agriculture. It is more academically rigorous than the submission post, and it quotes other research. Unfortunately, there are two flaws: a) the author has transitioned to what we'd call a far-right activist prior to his suicide. He became known outside the scientific community due to his book "Finis Germania" (which I haven't read). But the book that I am reading was published much earlier, and well-received by the scientific community. The same goes for other works by him. He focused on the living conditions that allowed for a humanitarian mindset to even emerge, basically what humans do to provide the resources for living. b) there seems to be no English translation

AlotOfReading 1y ago
Unfortunately, I'm not fluent in German and haven't read any of his works. Can't really comment on it. Broadly, in the English speaking anthropology community, the views you'll find are pretty well summarized by Kelly's Lifeways of Hunter-Gatherers, if you want English reading. The vast majority of these groups probably would have been very vocally egalitarian to avoid even the appearance of status and power. Everyone's aware of it, simply to avoid it because of the social repercussions that come from the association and the fact that others can simply leave you.
- moritzwarhier 1y ago
  Thanks for your reply! The back-cover text of the book I linked explicitly says the same, but with a strong reversal of causation. Roughly translated and summarized, it says: "Genuinely egalitarian societies must be small and tight-knit". It kind of ties egalitarianism to hunter-gatherer tribes, and even doubts the possibility of egalitarianism in industrialized (and even agriculture-driven) socieities. I'm not here to replicate this claim, the book's contents are of course more nuanced that my summary of the cover text. I think it even quotes Kelly, but I'd have to move my fat ass to the shelve and look up the appendix to confirm this. It discusses many different works about pre-modern societies.

AlotOfReading 1y ago

Unfortunately, I'm not fluent in German and haven't read any of his works. Can't really comment on it. Broadly, in the English speaking anthropology community, the views you'll find are pretty well summarized by Kelly's Lifeways of Hunter-Gatherers, if you want English reading. The vast majority of these groups probably would have been very vocally egalitarian to avoid even the appearance of status and power. Everyone's aware of it, simply to avoid it because of the social repercussions that come from the association and the fact that others can simply leave you.

moritzwarhier 1y ago
Thanks for your reply! The back-cover text of the book I linked explicitly says the same, but with a strong reversal of causation. Roughly translated and summarized, it says: "Genuinely egalitarian societies must be small and tight-knit". It kind of ties egalitarianism to hunter-gatherer tribes, and even doubts the possibility of egalitarianism in industrialized (and even agriculture-driven) socieities. I'm not here to replicate this claim, the book's contents are of course more nuanced that my summary of the cover text. I think it even quotes Kelly, but I'd have to move my fat ass to the shelve and look up the appendix to confirm this. It discusses many different works about pre-modern societies.