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If Russia were to win the war and a Ukrainian underground would launch "guerrilla attacks" against Russia, they would be lauded as heros. Now here we have a som

If Russia were to win the war and a Ukrainian underground would launch "guerrilla attacks" against Russia, they would be lauded as heros. Now here we have a somewhat similar story, of a foreign invader that displaced the local people not too long ago and a remaining native opposition. There is no version of this that will end up with the Palestinians getting a fair outcome. I've calling this a genocide quite early on, sadly it looks like I was right and there is probably many condemning details we aren't yet aware of.

throwaway3060 1y ago
This scenario already played out before in history; some people may believe those groups to have been heroes, but most can recognize that fighting in the name of independence did not make those groups any less guilty of committing atrocities against civilians. At the same time, that doesn't take away today from the people fighting for freedom legitimately. If anything, those groups hurt their cause in the long-run, as they gave Russia ammunition for propaganda for the next 80+ years.
- the_g0d_f4ther 1y ago
  Would you say the same about fighting nazi occupation ? Whatever the cost and the consequences (targeting civilians, infrastructure, etc)
  - throwaway3060 1y ago
    I'm not aware of any "resistance groups" fighting the Nazis that created horrors of this kind - though the Soviet army itself probably did. In my opinion, what distinguishes these kinds of massacres is their utter meaninglessness; they serve no military purpose, they are usually even detrimental to military goals. Going door to door killing does nothing to advance a cause - it is purely an expression of hate.
- Voultapher 1y ago
  Just curious what does fighting for freedom legitimately look like in this context for you? > For Fanon in The Wretched of the Earth, the colonizer's presence in Algeria is based on sheer military strength. Any resistance to this strength must also be of a violent nature because it is the only "language" the colonizer speaks. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon
  - throwaway3060 1y ago
    Continuing the WWII example, I think of partisans running sabotage operations while hiding out in the forests. In contrast, if the actions look closer to those of literal Nazi collaborators, then there is only depravity in that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatyn_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatyn_massacre
    - int_19h 1y ago
      Partisans were kinda notorious for their actions against civilians - sometimes to punish collaborators (although in practice it would often be the entire village deemed collectively responsible if e.g. some partisans were betrayed there, and burned down), but often just targeting the infrastructure to deny it to the Germans even if that meant that civilians would starve to death etc. Here's one famous partisan hero-martyr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya
egisspegis 1y ago
Yes, it's a very similar situation. Both Russia and Gaza are ruled by criminal autocracy. In russia it's mafia style autocracy, in Gaza - terrorism and religious fanaticism. Both Russia and Gaza have their population under control, influence and brainrot. Both Israel and Ukraine where there long before Gaza and Russia even existed. Both Russia and Hamas invaded and tried to commit genocide on Ukraine and Israel respectively. Both Russia and Hamas failed their goals spectacularly and now are playing the victims (for the same target audience, albeit split on political axis).

throwaway3060 1y ago

This scenario already played out before in history; some people may believe those groups to have been heroes, but most can recognize that fighting in the name of independence did not make those groups any less guilty of committing atrocities against civilians. At the same time, that doesn't take away today from the people fighting for freedom legitimately. If anything, those groups hurt their cause in the long-run, as they gave Russia ammunition for propaganda for the next 80+ years.

the_g0d_f4ther 1y ago
Would you say the same about fighting nazi occupation ? Whatever the cost and the consequences (targeting civilians, infrastructure, etc)
- throwaway3060 1y ago
  I'm not aware of any "resistance groups" fighting the Nazis that created horrors of this kind - though the Soviet army itself probably did. In my opinion, what distinguishes these kinds of massacres is their utter meaninglessness; they serve no military purpose, they are usually even detrimental to military goals. Going door to door killing does nothing to advance a cause - it is purely an expression of hate.
Voultapher 1y ago
Just curious what does fighting for freedom legitimately look like in this context for you? > For Fanon in The Wretched of the Earth, the colonizer's presence in Algeria is based on sheer military strength. Any resistance to this strength must also be of a violent nature because it is the only "language" the colonizer speaks. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon
- throwaway3060 1y ago
  Continuing the WWII example, I think of partisans running sabotage operations while hiding out in the forests. In contrast, if the actions look closer to those of literal Nazi collaborators, then there is only depravity in that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatyn_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatyn_massacre
  - int_19h 1y ago
    Partisans were kinda notorious for their actions against civilians - sometimes to punish collaborators (although in practice it would often be the entire village deemed collectively responsible if e.g. some partisans were betrayed there, and burned down), but often just targeting the infrastructure to deny it to the Germans even if that meant that civilians would starve to death etc. Here's one famous partisan hero-martyr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya

egisspegis 1y ago

Yes, it's a very similar situation. Both Russia and Gaza are ruled by criminal autocracy. In russia it's mafia style autocracy, in Gaza - terrorism and religious fanaticism. Both Russia and Gaza have their population under control, influence and brainrot. Both Israel and Ukraine where there long before Gaza and Russia even existed. Both Russia and Hamas invaded and tried to commit genocide on Ukraine and Israel respectively. Both Russia and Hamas failed their goals spectacularly and now are playing the victims (for the same target audience, albeit split on political axis).