4 ms·

As a westerner, I feel ashamed that my country is Isreal's ally. It makes me guilty by association because the western world is letting Israel commit thoses atr

As a westerner, I feel ashamed that my country is Isreal's ally. It makes me guilty by association because the western world is letting Israel commit thoses atrocities. Worse, we are helping them when they need it, and closing our eyes when they don't want us to watch.

wakeupcaller 1y ago
[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Is there a reason to disbelieve the soldiers’ testimony?
  - wakeupcaller 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      > Haaretz has become a radical-Islam mouthpiece and will most likely be banned soon Okay but this is just another claim that seems to require evidence. Why should I believe this?
      - jimmydoe 1y ago
        [flagged]
        wakeupcaller 1y ago
        [flagged]
    - hedora 1y ago
      Here's a story from NPR that makes much stronger claims agaist Israel (and cites sources) than the Haaretz story: https://www.npr.org/2025/06/28/nx-s1-5449587/israel-gaza-haaretz-report https://www.npr.org/2025/06/28/nx-s1-5449587/israel-gaza-haa...
  - mpweiher 1y ago
    There is plenty of reason to disbelieve the testimony was reported accurately. Haaretz’s English edition claims that IDF soldiers were ordered to fire at unarmed Palestinians waiting for food in Gaza, but the original Hebrew version? It states they were told to fire towards crowds to keep them away from the aid sites. This represents a significant difference in intent, legality, and moral implications https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/p/haaretz-the-lies-continue https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/p/haaretz-the-lies-continue https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44404779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44404779
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      > fire at unarmed Palestinians waiting for food in Gaza > fire towards crowds to keep them away from the aid sites I am struggling to understand the distinction.
      - jorl17 1y ago
        The difference is the agenda of the reader, sadly.
    - therealdrag0 1y ago
      Who cares about the word used in that sentence. They also said they killed people every day by doing this. How is that explained away?
      - 6510 1y ago
        For you and me conversation is about facts, reality and accuracy. For them it is about bending the narrative as far as it will go. It's not strange behavior if everyone around you is doing it.
- MSFT_Edging 1y ago
  what about the last two years of video evidence of all the other war crimes? The bodies of burnt children. The reports of doctors who document multiple sniper rounds found in the bodies of small children and toddlers? I've been seeing reports about internet connectivity being very touch and go in Gaza the last few weeks. Is it not unreasonable to think, those who are starving the most might not have internet/electricity to charge a device/care to document when they're starving?
  - throwaway290 1y ago
    jsyk many cases of evidence turned out to be propaganda and instead was showing Syria (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231229-war-of-narratives-syrian-imagery-falsely-illustrates-gaza https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231229-war-of-narrat... and Bellingcat looked into it as well) Some of it may be real but you really need to pay attention about who posted it originally, who reposted it etc, even people you wouldn't expect sometimes retweeted recycled Syrian footage...
    - MSFT_Edging 1y ago
      > Some of it may be real From first-hand accounts, a lot of it is in-fact real. Including the babies who were left to die in the NICU. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-doctor-interviews.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-...
      - throwaway290 1y ago
        There's probably truthful accounts and there's different sorts of manipulation (like OP article is a bit) but you can't know "a lot" or "a little" of what other people see is true of fake
- mrkeen 1y ago
  Maybe their phones are running a bit low on charge and they can't find an outlet here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSHED-mRP1g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSHED-mRP1g
srj 1y ago
[flagged]
- justin66 1y ago
  I'm fairly certain you haven't read the haaretz article. Otherwise your comment is inexplicable.
  - srj 1y ago
    The article cites no evidence except for anonymous accounts. There's no video evidence even though people would widely have smart phones there. The association distributing aid as well as Israel's government have denied any of this happened. I'd be upset if this happened too, but there's no evidence of that. My guess is that warning shots were fired. Did I miss something from the article? I did read it.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- stormfather 1y ago
  [flagged]
- EasyMark 1y ago
  They have a right to take out Hamas, they don't have the right to mow down crowds of starving people with sub-machine guns while they're just trying to get to some food
  - neoromantique 1y ago
    Your comment puts you firmly in pro-israel camp by today's western standards. There's no disagreement about contents of the article being a war crime, if it is true. Haaretz is not a reliable source, they often publish hearsay and seldom verify the testimonies. We have reports of seemingly daily massacres around food distribution sites mostly originating from one single "journalist" with direct self described sympathy towards Hamas and source always being "locals told me", yet somehow it ends up being published in Reuters et all on a semi-daily basis.
EasyMark 1y ago
THe USA is currently run by a convicted felon, so it doesn't really surprise me.

wakeupcaller 1y ago

[flagged]

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Is there a reason to disbelieve the soldiers’ testimony?
- wakeupcaller 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
    > Haaretz has become a radical-Islam mouthpiece and will most likely be banned soon Okay but this is just another claim that seems to require evidence. Why should I believe this?
    - jimmydoe 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - wakeupcaller 1y ago
        [flagged]
  - hedora 1y ago
    Here's a story from NPR that makes much stronger claims agaist Israel (and cites sources) than the Haaretz story: https://www.npr.org/2025/06/28/nx-s1-5449587/israel-gaza-haaretz-report https://www.npr.org/2025/06/28/nx-s1-5449587/israel-gaza-haa...
- mpweiher 1y ago
  There is plenty of reason to disbelieve the testimony was reported accurately. Haaretz’s English edition claims that IDF soldiers were ordered to fire at unarmed Palestinians waiting for food in Gaza, but the original Hebrew version? It states they were told to fire towards crowds to keep them away from the aid sites. This represents a significant difference in intent, legality, and moral implications https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/p/haaretz-the-lies-continue https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/p/haaretz-the-lies-continue https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44404779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44404779
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
    > fire at unarmed Palestinians waiting for food in Gaza > fire towards crowds to keep them away from the aid sites I am struggling to understand the distinction.
    - jorl17 1y ago
      The difference is the agenda of the reader, sadly.
  - therealdrag0 1y ago
    Who cares about the word used in that sentence. They also said they killed people every day by doing this. How is that explained away?
    - 6510 1y ago
      For you and me conversation is about facts, reality and accuracy. For them it is about bending the narrative as far as it will go. It's not strange behavior if everyone around you is doing it.
MSFT_Edging 1y ago
what about the last two years of video evidence of all the other war crimes? The bodies of burnt children. The reports of doctors who document multiple sniper rounds found in the bodies of small children and toddlers? I've been seeing reports about internet connectivity being very touch and go in Gaza the last few weeks. Is it not unreasonable to think, those who are starving the most might not have internet/electricity to charge a device/care to document when they're starving?
- throwaway290 1y ago
  jsyk many cases of evidence turned out to be propaganda and instead was showing Syria (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231229-war-of-narratives-syrian-imagery-falsely-illustrates-gaza https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231229-war-of-narrat... and Bellingcat looked into it as well) Some of it may be real but you really need to pay attention about who posted it originally, who reposted it etc, even people you wouldn't expect sometimes retweeted recycled Syrian footage...
  - MSFT_Edging 1y ago
    > Some of it may be real From first-hand accounts, a lot of it is in-fact real. Including the babies who were left to die in the NICU. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-doctor-interviews.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-...
    - throwaway290 1y ago
      There's probably truthful accounts and there's different sorts of manipulation (like OP article is a bit) but you can't know "a lot" or "a little" of what other people see is true of fake
mrkeen 1y ago
Maybe their phones are running a bit low on charge and they can't find an outlet here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSHED-mRP1g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSHED-mRP1g

srj 1y ago

[flagged]

justin66 1y ago
I'm fairly certain you haven't read the haaretz article. Otherwise your comment is inexplicable.
- srj 1y ago
  The article cites no evidence except for anonymous accounts. There's no video evidence even though people would widely have smart phones there. The association distributing aid as well as Israel's government have denied any of this happened. I'd be upset if this happened too, but there's no evidence of that. My guess is that warning shots were fired. Did I miss something from the article? I did read it.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
stormfather 1y ago
[flagged]
EasyMark 1y ago
They have a right to take out Hamas, they don't have the right to mow down crowds of starving people with sub-machine guns while they're just trying to get to some food
- neoromantique 1y ago
  Your comment puts you firmly in pro-israel camp by today's western standards. There's no disagreement about contents of the article being a war crime, if it is true. Haaretz is not a reliable source, they often publish hearsay and seldom verify the testimonies. We have reports of seemingly daily massacres around food distribution sites mostly originating from one single "journalist" with direct self described sympathy towards Hamas and source always being "locals told me", yet somehow it ends up being published in Reuters et all on a semi-daily basis.

EasyMark 1y ago

THe USA is currently run by a convicted felon, so it doesn't really surprise me.