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> Whether you were personally hurt isn’t the point. Conflicting nationwide rulings from different judges created legal chaos and undermined consistency So now

> Whether you were personally hurt isn’t the point. Conflicting nationwide rulings from different judges created legal chaos and undermined consistency So now you can be a US citizen when in New York but not while in Kentucky. Sure to cause no chaos.

firesteelrain 1y ago
Huh? Federal laws apply everywhere. The rulings just means an injunction only affects the parties in that case or a certified class and not everyone everywhere automatically
- anonymars 1y ago
  Yeah, so when you say "federal laws apply everywhere", what happens when one state sues that it's unconstitutional and another doesn't? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44401294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44401294
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Then enforcement is paused for the parties in that case. Other courts may rule differently until the issue is resolved higher up
    - vkou 1y ago
      The whole strategy of the federal government with this is to never resolve the issue higher up. You keep saying that the issue will be resolved higher up. How? There's no mechanism for it. The winner of a case can't kick it up to higher courts.
      - firesteelrain 1y ago
        Follow the process like requiring coordinated multi-district litigation or pushing for appellate consolidation This just puts the burden on challengers to build stronger cases, not shortcut national impact through procedural overreach.
        magicalist 1y ago
        > This just puts the burden on challengers to build stronger cases, not shortcut national impact through procedural overreach. Constitution? Never heard of it! If and when you feel like your rights are being abrogated, just file suit and the court system will get to you in the order you filed, plus three to seven years. If in the meantime you suffered hardship due to actions of the federal government, I have bad news for you forwards you link to wikipedia pages on sovereign and qualified immunity
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        I think the real answer is reforming the process so it doesn’t take so long to get relief. Not injunctive relief nationally at the lowest possible level
        vkou 1y ago
        > Follow the process What is the next step in the process? It no longer matters how many times and how hard you win, no precedent will ever be set. You talk about making better cases and better arguments? Don't you think that the onus is on the government to do that, when they are both doing something entirely unprecedented, and losing every time it goes to court? The point of checks and balances isn't to make it quick and easy for the executive to illegally overreach. It's to make it hard. If they want to move quickly, they should stay within the bounds of the law - which is something that Trump in particular, and his regime in general is utterly incapable of.
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        Onus is on Plaintiffs. That’s how our system works
        fzeroracer 1y ago
        What process? If you're a lawyer then detail the exact process for us.
        1y ago
    - anonymars 1y ago
      So, in the meantime then: > So now you can be a US citizen when in New York but not while in Kentucky. Sure to cause no chaos.
      - firesteelrain 1y ago
        Citizenship is national not at state level
        anonymars 1y ago
        Sure, now what happens when different courts rule on this differently?
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        Eventually it will reach the Supreme Court if it is appealed.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        anonymars 1y ago
        And what about right now (or rather, after the thirty day stay expires)?
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        It is a feature not a bug to have legal fragmentation in our judicial system. That’s how it was setup. Enforcement and effect can vary temporarily due to conflicting judicial rulings thus creating short-term legal fragmentation until it's resolved at a higher level
        boroboro4 1y ago
        We used to have this feature and not a bug of having different takes on slavery legality in the US. You might know how this ended. The state of people either having or not having citizenship defined by either statewide injunction was or wasn’t issued is pure chaos and pretty much indefensible.

firesteelrain 1y ago

Huh? Federal laws apply everywhere. The rulings just means an injunction only affects the parties in that case or a certified class and not everyone everywhere automatically

anonymars 1y ago
Yeah, so when you say "federal laws apply everywhere", what happens when one state sues that it's unconstitutional and another doesn't? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44401294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44401294
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  Then enforcement is paused for the parties in that case. Other courts may rule differently until the issue is resolved higher up
  - vkou 1y ago
    The whole strategy of the federal government with this is to never resolve the issue higher up. You keep saying that the issue will be resolved higher up. How? There's no mechanism for it. The winner of a case can't kick it up to higher courts.
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      Follow the process like requiring coordinated multi-district litigation or pushing for appellate consolidation This just puts the burden on challengers to build stronger cases, not shortcut national impact through procedural overreach.
      - magicalist 1y ago
        > This just puts the burden on challengers to build stronger cases, not shortcut national impact through procedural overreach. Constitution? Never heard of it! If and when you feel like your rights are being abrogated, just file suit and the court system will get to you in the order you filed, plus three to seven years. If in the meantime you suffered hardship due to actions of the federal government, I have bad news for you forwards you link to wikipedia pages on sovereign and qualified immunity
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        I think the real answer is reforming the process so it doesn’t take so long to get relief. Not injunctive relief nationally at the lowest possible level
      - vkou 1y ago
        > Follow the process What is the next step in the process? It no longer matters how many times and how hard you win, no precedent will ever be set. You talk about making better cases and better arguments? Don't you think that the onus is on the government to do that, when they are both doing something entirely unprecedented, and losing every time it goes to court? The point of checks and balances isn't to make it quick and easy for the executive to illegally overreach. It's to make it hard. If they want to move quickly, they should stay within the bounds of the law - which is something that Trump in particular, and his regime in general is utterly incapable of.
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        Onus is on Plaintiffs. That’s how our system works
      - fzeroracer 1y ago
        What process? If you're a lawyer then detail the exact process for us.
        1y ago
  - anonymars 1y ago
    So, in the meantime then: > So now you can be a US citizen when in New York but not while in Kentucky. Sure to cause no chaos.
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      Citizenship is national not at state level
      - anonymars 1y ago
        Sure, now what happens when different courts rule on this differently?
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        Eventually it will reach the Supreme Court if it is appealed.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        anonymars 1y ago
        And what about right now (or rather, after the thirty day stay expires)?
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        It is a feature not a bug to have legal fragmentation in our judicial system. That’s how it was setup. Enforcement and effect can vary temporarily due to conflicting judicial rulings thus creating short-term legal fragmentation until it's resolved at a higher level
        boroboro4 1y ago
        We used to have this feature and not a bug of having different takes on slavery legality in the US. You might know how this ended. The state of people either having or not having citizenship defined by either statewide injunction was or wasn’t issued is pure chaos and pretty much indefensible.