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What meaningful action would you have people take? Remember, force is out of the question because it will provide justification for the oppression and make p

What *meaningful* action would you have people take? Remember, force is out of the question because it will provide justification for the oppression and make people more willing to accept it.

esseph 1y ago
Force is never out of the question. The illusion some want you to believe, is that it is.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  Force that the individual can employ would be counterproductive. Remove any of the problematic people and the remainder get more support. Look at how history has played out. When a government is nearly universally despised by it's people it can be overthrown by mass action, basically bloodless and sometimes with a good outcome. However, so long as the government has a reasonable sized core of support the outcome is always bad. Violent overthrow always brings the most ruthless, not the best for the people. Note that this does not apply to throwing out a colonial power. There are multiple examples of good outcomes from throwing out colonial powers by force.
  - esseph 1y ago
    A single individual with a couple of drones and some bad intentions in the modern era could easily do billions in damage in one afternoon. The world is always in flux.
underlipton 1y ago
Brian Thompson's death didn't seem to have any major consequences along those lines. Targeted assassinations seem to be kosher for avoiding crackdowns. If someone were to shoot Peter Thiel in the head, do we REALLY expect to see a sudden descent into oppressive authoritarianism? Or, as with Thompson, do most people say, "Eh, he had it coming," and keep it moving?
- sterlind 1y ago
  Brian Thompson was uniquely unsympathetic. he wasn't well-known, his wife had separated from him, and nearly everyone has a personal experience of some family member being fucked over by health insurance, with UnitedHealth being especially heinous. the media really struggled to find anyone to say sincerely positive things about him. he really was the best possible target Luigi could have chosen.
  - collingreen 1y ago
    I agree he was unsympathetic but there are far far "better targets" (your words) for vigilante murder if public opinion is the bar. Robert Richards IV is one of my go to examples for the complete lack of justice for the hyperwealthy [1] but there are mountains of big pharma, big food, insurance, church leaders, and private military people who are absolute monsters by any reasonable standard. I think Brian Thompson was a fuckface (and all the others who help enable the evils there in the name of profit) but he was basically doing what America has deemed not only fine but noble - make as much money as possible without fully breaking the law (or, more accurately, being forced to stop by the law - many routinely and intentionally break the law in their pursuit). Half the country loves and celebrates this behavior to the point where politicians _brag_ about how good they are at it. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_and_sentencing_of_Robert_H._Richards_IV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_and_sentencing_of_Robe...
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  He didn't have a role in government. He was just a despised rich guy. I was talking about the consequences of taking out any of the MAGA leaders.
  - underlipton 1y ago
    Again, I don't think people are shedding a tear if Thiel or any of the other nomenklatura bite it. Going further: we just had an assassination of Democratic lawmakers, and it's already almost out of the news cycle. There's a chance that years of violence and elites who don't care have deadened the American soul to the horror of the proverbial guillotine.
sterlind 1y ago
blue states ought to defy the Federal government. the closest we've gotten so far this term was California threatening to withold income tax. the less power the states have to determine their own destiny in the country, the less respect they should give the Federal government. here's a success story: marijuana. WA and CO just.. decided to legalize it. blatantly against Federal law. even if it stays inside the state, by Wickard v Filburne and the supremacy clause it was a (mild) rebellion. we stared the Feds down and they blinked. do more of that.

What *meaningful* action would you have people take? Remember, force is out of the question because it will provide justification for the oppression and make p

What *meaningful* action would you have people take? Remember, force is out of the question because it will provide justification for the oppression and make people more willing to accept it.

esseph 1y ago

Force is never out of the question. The illusion some want you to believe, is that it is.

LorenPechtel 1y ago
Force that the individual can employ would be counterproductive. Remove any of the problematic people and the remainder get more support. Look at how history has played out. When a government is nearly universally despised by it's people it can be overthrown by mass action, basically bloodless and sometimes with a good outcome. However, so long as the government has a reasonable sized core of support the outcome is always bad. Violent overthrow always brings the most ruthless, not the best for the people. Note that this does not apply to throwing out a colonial power. There are multiple examples of good outcomes from throwing out colonial powers by force.
- esseph 1y ago
  A single individual with a couple of drones and some bad intentions in the modern era could easily do billions in damage in one afternoon. The world is always in flux.

underlipton 1y ago

Brian Thompson's death didn't seem to have any major consequences along those lines. Targeted assassinations seem to be kosher for avoiding crackdowns. If someone were to shoot Peter Thiel in the head, do we REALLY expect to see a sudden descent into oppressive authoritarianism? Or, as with Thompson, do most people say, "Eh, he had it coming," and keep it moving?

sterlind 1y ago
Brian Thompson was uniquely unsympathetic. he wasn't well-known, his wife had separated from him, and nearly everyone has a personal experience of some family member being fucked over by health insurance, with UnitedHealth being especially heinous. the media really struggled to find anyone to say sincerely positive things about him. he really was the best possible target Luigi could have chosen.
- collingreen 1y ago
  I agree he was unsympathetic but there are far far "better targets" (your words) for vigilante murder if public opinion is the bar. Robert Richards IV is one of my go to examples for the complete lack of justice for the hyperwealthy [1] but there are mountains of big pharma, big food, insurance, church leaders, and private military people who are absolute monsters by any reasonable standard. I think Brian Thompson was a fuckface (and all the others who help enable the evils there in the name of profit) but he was basically doing what America has deemed not only fine but noble - make as much money as possible without fully breaking the law (or, more accurately, being forced to stop by the law - many routinely and intentionally break the law in their pursuit). Half the country loves and celebrates this behavior to the point where politicians _brag_ about how good they are at it. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_and_sentencing_of_Robert_H._Richards_IV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_and_sentencing_of_Robe...
LorenPechtel 1y ago
He didn't have a role in government. He was just a despised rich guy. I was talking about the consequences of taking out any of the MAGA leaders.
- underlipton 1y ago
  Again, I don't think people are shedding a tear if Thiel or any of the other nomenklatura bite it. Going further: we just had an assassination of Democratic lawmakers, and it's already almost out of the news cycle. There's a chance that years of violence and elites who don't care have deadened the American soul to the horror of the proverbial guillotine.

sterlind 1y ago

blue states ought to defy the Federal government. the closest we've gotten so far this term was California threatening to withold income tax. the less power the states have to determine their own destiny in the country, the less respect they should give the Federal government. here's a success story: marijuana. WA and CO just.. decided to legalize it. blatantly against Federal law. even if it stays inside the state, by Wickard v Filburne and the supremacy clause it was a (mild) rebellion. we stared the Feds down and they blinked. do more of that.