4 ms·

> is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disag

by Retric 1y ago

> is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disagree, the politicians tend to side with the elites. The case when everyone agrees doesn’t tell you anything. It’s only when people disagree that you can find who has actual power and in this case the general public has effectively zero actual meaningful power day to day. Systematic voter suppression plus gerrymandering etc may win you rigged elections, but ultimately voting isn’t about the system in place it’s avoidance unrest. We’re entering uncharted territory with how strongly people disagree with what the government is doing, which is where the general public actually has a say, namely by destroying the existing power structures rather than voting. It’s not even a question of insurrection, not having kids plus 60’s style dropping out at scale is ruinous.

rayiner 1y ago
[flagged]
- Retric 1y ago
  > if people mostly disagreed with the elites People agree on most things for sensible reasons. There’s no country where people are going to be ok legalizing murder in all situations. Similarly we aren’t going to randomly convert street signs to cuneiform or other language nobody speaks etc. > You’re overestimating how much people care about any of this stuff. I’m in a blue state and I hear almost nothing about it other than from some overly empathetic people on facebook. The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the broader left don’t care much to oppose it I’m not talking about one specific issue here but how much people in general dislike what’s happening. That includes Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’
  - rayiner 1y ago
    > I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’ And I know multiple "blue by default" democrats who voted for Trump. My Muslim immigrant mom posted approvingly today about this Supreme Court decision, because she doesn't like that the courts have stymied Trump's agenda. The GOP hasn’t been fiscally conservative since Coolidge. By the 1980s republicans paid lip service to the concept but couldn’t actually cut spending because they needed the FDR Catholic vote. Now with Trump, he doesn’t even need the lip service. If Gerald Ford Republicans are upset about what's happened to the party, they have only their own immigration policy to blame. The Trump GOP is the politically viable conservative party given our current demographics.
    - Retric 1y ago
      Trump is “still paying lip service to it” DODGE was a shit show but the sentiment still exists within the party it’s politicians ignoring what the base wants. “The Tea Party movement focuses on a significant reduction in the size and scope of the government.” It resulted in a wave of Republicans getting elected who then completely ignored why they were there effectively killing the movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement > Now with Trump, he doesn’t even need the lip service. He was speaking to Tea party events back in 2016, today he’s done with elections.
      - rayiner 1y ago
        Trump did DOGE to get Elon on board. He wasn’t even talking about the budget deficit until then. And it wasn’t on his platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform. In retrospect, the Tea Party’s popularity was probably because it was anti-Obama and his brand of government managerialism, not because of promises to balance the budget. Any actual fiscal responsibility would be met with massive backlash and will never happen. In the America we live in today, the only way to be a viable political party is to buy votes from relevant groups, like Trump did to win Nevada with No Taxes on Tips.
- anigbrowl 1y ago
  > The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. They set records for size and you know it. What do you mean by 'tepid', because they didn't riot? Would you acknowledge them as more valid if they had rioted, or declared angry tones that they had to be put down immediately? > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the broader left don’t care much to oppose it Absolute BS. No matter what they do, you'll cook up some reasons to delegitimitze it. But I guess you have to, the moment you cease being useful to the GOP you'll become a target.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    > They set records for size and you know it. What do you mean by 'tepid', because they didn't riot? According to whom? I'm in the D.C. metro area, and the protests are far less noticeable than the 2017 pink hat protests or the 2020 riots. They organized a bunch of small protests all around the country so more people maybe participated, but the intensity is low even in DC. > Absolute BS. No matter what they do, you'll cook up some reasons to delegitimitze it. But I guess you have to, the moment you cease being useful to the GOP you'll become a target. I’m just observing. The anti-Trump resistance I know in real life have retreated literally and metaphorically to a bubble in BlueSky. I was at a conference recently, steeling myself to deal with PMCs complaining about Trump, and nobody said anything. People were in a great mood. The vibe shift is real. And your second point is genuinely conspiratorial and fantastical thinking.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 1y ago
      > I'm in the D.C. metro area Different goals, they are trying to influence congress which cares a lot more about local protests than the number of people showing up to DC. Going to DC is counterproductive for that kind of thing.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      PMC == professional managerial class
underlipton 1y ago
Yup. Two things can never happen: 1) General labor strike 2) General rent/bill strike Either one results in an immediate liquidity crisis/credit crunch and the delegitimizing/insolvency of most institutions. The beginning of the COVID pandemic was, essentially, this. I would add in "general bank run", but I imagine that they just... wouldn't let that happen. Ironically, an emergency "injunction" against withdrawals.
- collingreen 1y ago
  When money became notes on a ledger controlled only by those who already have all the power true, country shaking bank runs went out the window.
- Whoppertime 1y ago
  Wouldn't a general rent strike look like the Eviction Moratorium of 2021?
  - underlipton 1y ago
    No, because people still paid their rent if they were able to.

by Retric 1y ago

rayiner 1y ago

[flagged]

Retric 1y ago
> if people mostly disagreed with the elites People agree on most things for sensible reasons. There’s no country where people are going to be ok legalizing murder in all situations. Similarly we aren’t going to randomly convert street signs to cuneiform or other language nobody speaks etc. > You’re overestimating how much people care about any of this stuff. I’m in a blue state and I hear almost nothing about it other than from some overly empathetic people on facebook. The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the broader left don’t care much to oppose it I’m not talking about one specific issue here but how much people in general dislike what’s happening. That includes Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’
- rayiner 1y ago
  > I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’ And I know multiple "blue by default" democrats who voted for Trump. My Muslim immigrant mom posted approvingly today about this Supreme Court decision, because she doesn't like that the courts have stymied Trump's agenda. The GOP hasn’t been fiscally conservative since Coolidge. By the 1980s republicans paid lip service to the concept but couldn’t actually cut spending because they needed the FDR Catholic vote. Now with Trump, he doesn’t even need the lip service. If Gerald Ford Republicans are upset about what's happened to the party, they have only their own immigration policy to blame. The Trump GOP is the politically viable conservative party given our current demographics.
  - Retric 1y ago
    Trump is “still paying lip service to it” DODGE was a shit show but the sentiment still exists within the party it’s politicians ignoring what the base wants. “The Tea Party movement focuses on a significant reduction in the size and scope of the government.” It resulted in a wave of Republicans getting elected who then completely ignored why they were there effectively killing the movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement > Now with Trump, he doesn’t even need the lip service. He was speaking to Tea party events back in 2016, today he’s done with elections.
    - rayiner 1y ago
      Trump did DOGE to get Elon on board. He wasn’t even talking about the budget deficit until then. And it wasn’t on his platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform. In retrospect, the Tea Party’s popularity was probably because it was anti-Obama and his brand of government managerialism, not because of promises to balance the budget. Any actual fiscal responsibility would be met with massive backlash and will never happen. In the America we live in today, the only way to be a viable political party is to buy votes from relevant groups, like Trump did to win Nevada with No Taxes on Tips.
anigbrowl 1y ago
> The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. They set records for size and you know it. What do you mean by 'tepid', because they didn't riot? Would you acknowledge them as more valid if they had rioted, or declared angry tones that they had to be put down immediately? > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the broader left don’t care much to oppose it Absolute BS. No matter what they do, you'll cook up some reasons to delegitimitze it. But I guess you have to, the moment you cease being useful to the GOP you'll become a target.
- rayiner 1y ago
  > They set records for size and you know it. What do you mean by 'tepid', because they didn't riot? According to whom? I'm in the D.C. metro area, and the protests are far less noticeable than the 2017 pink hat protests or the 2020 riots. They organized a bunch of small protests all around the country so more people maybe participated, but the intensity is low even in DC. > Absolute BS. No matter what they do, you'll cook up some reasons to delegitimitze it. But I guess you have to, the moment you cease being useful to the GOP you'll become a target. I’m just observing. The anti-Trump resistance I know in real life have retreated literally and metaphorically to a bubble in BlueSky. I was at a conference recently, steeling myself to deal with PMCs complaining about Trump, and nobody said anything. People were in a great mood. The vibe shift is real. And your second point is genuinely conspiratorial and fantastical thinking.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 1y ago
    > I'm in the D.C. metro area Different goals, they are trying to influence congress which cares a lot more about local protests than the number of people showing up to DC. Going to DC is counterproductive for that kind of thing.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    PMC == professional managerial class

underlipton 1y ago

Yup. Two things can never happen: 1) General labor strike 2) General rent/bill strike Either one results in an immediate liquidity crisis/credit crunch and the delegitimizing/insolvency of most institutions. The beginning of the COVID pandemic was, essentially, this. I would add in "general bank run", but I imagine that they just... wouldn't let that happen. Ironically, an emergency "injunction" against withdrawals.

collingreen 1y ago
When money became notes on a ledger controlled only by those who already have all the power true, country shaking bank runs went out the window.
Whoppertime 1y ago
Wouldn't a general rent strike look like the Eviction Moratorium of 2021?
- underlipton 1y ago
  No, because people still paid their rent if they were able to.