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There is some compelling research from Princeton that for 90%+ of the American voting population, there opinions have zero impact on federal policy. It's all lo

by ada1981 1y ago

There is some compelling research from Princeton that for 90%+ of the American voting population, there opinions have zero impact on federal policy. It's all lobby driven money. “The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.” https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba And they actively vote against the will of their constituents 35% of the time. http://promarket.org/2017/06/16/study-politicians-vote-will-constituents-35-percent-time/ http://promarket.org/2017/06/16/study-politicians-vote-will-...

rayiner 1y ago
That’s not quite an accurate description of the Princeton Study. What the study actually shows, if I’m thinking of the correct one, is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disagree, the politicians tend to side with the elites. A prime example of this is the immigration system. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/election-immigration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/electi... (“On the Ballot: An Immigration System Most Americans Never Wanted”). Americans never asked to import tens of millions of people from the third world. When Congress reformed the immigration system in 1965, they promised that wouldn’t happen. But for decades, there’s been a coalition of pro-foreigner liberals and pro-cheap-labor conservatives that have facilitated massive immigration that average americans never asked for. Trump, ironically, is a reaction to the very thing the Princeton study identified.
- Retric 1y ago
  > is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disagree, the politicians tend to side with the elites. The case when everyone agrees doesn’t tell you anything. It’s only when people disagree that you can find who has actual power and in this case the general public has effectively zero actual meaningful power day to day. Systematic voter suppression plus gerrymandering etc may win you rigged elections, but ultimately voting isn’t about the system in place it’s avoidance unrest. We’re entering uncharted territory with how strongly people disagree with what the government is doing, which is where the general public actually has a say, namely by destroying the existing power structures rather than voting. It’s not even a question of insurrection, not having kids plus 60’s style dropping out at scale is ruinous.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - Retric 1y ago
      > if people mostly disagreed with the elites People agree on most things for sensible reasons. There’s no country where people are going to be ok legalizing murder in all situations. Similarly we aren’t going to randomly convert street signs to cuneiform or other language nobody speaks etc. > You’re overestimating how much people care about any of this stuff. I’m in a blue state and I hear almost nothing about it other than from some overly empathetic people on facebook. The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the broader left don’t care much to oppose it I’m not talking about one specific issue here but how much people in general dislike what’s happening. That includes Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’
      - rayiner 1y ago
        > I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’ And I know multiple "blue by default" democrats who voted for Trump. My Muslim immigrant mom posted approvingly today about this Supreme Court decision, because she doesn't like that the courts have stymied Trump's agenda. The GOP hasn’t been fiscally conservative since Coolidge. By the 1980s republicans paid lip service to the concept but couldn’t actually cut spending because they needed the FDR Catholic vote. Now with Trump, he doesn’t even need the lip service. If Gerald Ford Republicans are upset about what's happened to the party, they have only their own immigration policy to blame. The Trump GOP is the politically viable conservative party given our current demographics.
- ada1981 1y ago
  This from actual authors of the study on what they found: “The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

rayiner 1y ago

That’s not quite an accurate description of the Princeton Study. What the study actually shows, if I’m thinking of the correct one, is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disagree, the politicians tend to side with the elites. A prime example of this is the immigration system. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/election-immigration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/electi... (“On the Ballot: An Immigration System Most Americans Never Wanted”). Americans never asked to import tens of millions of people from the third world. When Congress reformed the immigration system in 1965, they promised that wouldn’t happen. But for decades, there’s been a coalition of pro-foreigner liberals and pro-cheap-labor conservatives that have facilitated massive immigration that average americans never asked for. Trump, ironically, is a reaction to the very thing the Princeton study identified.

Retric 1y ago
> is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disagree, the politicians tend to side with the elites. The case when everyone agrees doesn’t tell you anything. It’s only when people disagree that you can find who has actual power and in this case the general public has effectively zero actual meaningful power day to day. Systematic voter suppression plus gerrymandering etc may win you rigged elections, but ultimately voting isn’t about the system in place it’s avoidance unrest. We’re entering uncharted territory with how strongly people disagree with what the government is doing, which is where the general public actually has a say, namely by destroying the existing power structures rather than voting. It’s not even a question of insurrection, not having kids plus 60’s style dropping out at scale is ruinous.
- rayiner 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - Retric 1y ago
    > if people mostly disagreed with the elites People agree on most things for sensible reasons. There’s no country where people are going to be ok legalizing murder in all situations. Similarly we aren’t going to randomly convert street signs to cuneiform or other language nobody speaks etc. > You’re overestimating how much people care about any of this stuff. I’m in a blue state and I hear almost nothing about it other than from some overly empathetic people on facebook. The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the broader left don’t care much to oppose it I’m not talking about one specific issue here but how much people in general dislike what’s happening. That includes Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’
    - rayiner 1y ago
      > I know multiple hard core Republicans since Gerald Ford who now dislike winning elections only slightly less than they dislike loosing them. As one put it ‘Democrats do a better job of fucking balancing the budget, what I am doing?’ And I know multiple "blue by default" democrats who voted for Trump. My Muslim immigrant mom posted approvingly today about this Supreme Court decision, because she doesn't like that the courts have stymied Trump's agenda. The GOP hasn’t been fiscally conservative since Coolidge. By the 1980s republicans paid lip service to the concept but couldn’t actually cut spending because they needed the FDR Catholic vote. Now with Trump, he doesn’t even need the lip service. If Gerald Ford Republicans are upset about what's happened to the party, they have only their own immigration policy to blame. The Trump GOP is the politically viable conservative party given our current demographics.
ada1981 1y ago
This from actual authors of the study on what they found: “The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”