4 ms·

I don't know how to state this well but I find the fact that nearly all new apartment buildings in California are only allowed to be built on busy streets very

I don't know how to state this well but I find the fact that nearly all new apartment buildings in California are only allowed to be built on busy streets very frustrating. I'm guessing it's part nimby-ism and part zoning but every time I see a new apartment complex it's next to the busiest streets in the city (LA, SF). It's like many things, if you want health you must be rich. If you can't afford a house then F.U. You get a loud apartment with constant traffic noise. I *almost* feel like it should be illegal to build them next to the freeway like Those ones just north of SFO next to the 110: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27 https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27 The ones in downtown LA next to the 110: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16 https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16 The ones north of LAX at Howard Hughes: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6 I don't actually think I think they should be illegal but dang it, I wish there were more options for new apartments. In LA there are lots of older apartment buildings in quiet residential neighborhoods built 50+ years ago. https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6 They are no longer allowed to be built AFAICT.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago
Streets are much quieter at lower speed limits. There is definitely room for improvement here from the traffic engineers.
- gowld 1y ago
  Downtown is very low speed but very noisy.
  - kjkjadksj 1y ago
    Say what you will about the suburbs but the grass and landscaping on each and every property is like noise cancelling foam being applied compared to the hardscaping downtown.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      This is why I moved to suburbs tbh Compared to the city it's so quiet and peaceful. My sleep is much better
- potato3732842 1y ago
  To a point. The problem is that the kind of people who are always screeching about traffic speeds are never satisfied and below a certain threshold the only way to go get slower is 4-way stops. And once those go in you get to listen to every motorcycle and delivery truck accelerate after the stop.
aegypti 1y ago
https://cayimby.org/legislation/sb-79/ https://cayimby.org/legislation/sb-79/ They will be allowed by right near any type of transit stop if SB79 goes through!
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  This entrenches that behavior because the transit stops are often on arterials.
  - aegypti 1y ago
    Hopefully the legislators have thought of this and extended the downzoning to half a mile even for BRT stops in the middle of the sunset district :)
gowld 1y ago
That's not a problem with the location. That's a problem with building materials. I've lives on the busiest street in town, with well insulated walls and windows that block out street noise. And I've lived in poorly -constructed suburban houses that admit noise from across the neighborhood.
- layman51 1y ago
  I disagree. The location is definitely a factor. If you live within 300 feet (about 100 meters) of a multi-lane highway, then depending on the wind patterns, you are definitely getting more exposure to pollutants that come from cars, trucks, or their brakes and tires. But no one in California is ready to talk about addressing this because it would require radically changing the status quo.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  So you’re saying people living in apartments are required to never open their windows? I’m all for better construction but I still want to be able to open my windows without having to let in tons of noise and car exhaust
sjs382 1y ago
> only allowed to be built on busy streets Is this true or a misleading observation? I can see some argument about it, increasing traffic in areas that aren't equipped for it if the building is large enough. But it might just be market forces, too: in larger cities, it's often more desirable to be near a major artery. Earplugs (if the noise bothers you) vs a longer commute.
- aegypti 1y ago
  It is quite literally illegal to build anything but detached single family homes on 95.8 percent of the total residential land area in California / 75% of the residential land area in most major American cities.
  - trollbridge 1y ago
    "Residential land area"? Much of California's land has no zoning at all. Of course, it's not near any cities either (or near any road noise).
    - aegypti 1y ago
      It is illegal to build housing without a permit, and you will not be issued a permit on much of California’s land. Residential land area = land you can build housing on https://belonging.berkeley.edu/single-family-zoning-california-statewide-analysis https://belonging.berkeley.edu/single-family-zoning-californ...
  - jobs_throwaway 1y ago
    Daily reminder that our zoning policy is deeply racist and evil
- conradev 1y ago
  I don’t know about “only allowed”, but this is a thing: https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senate-passes-senator-wieners-legislation-build-homes-near-public-transit-improve https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senate-passes-senator-wiener...
dackle 1y ago
Check out the location of these condos in downtown Toronto built alongside the Gardiner Expressway, a very busy 90km/h (~55mph) highway: https://maps.app.goo.gl/TGLCBJGbrSEkAm7W6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/TGLCBJGbrSEkAm7W6 The satellite view shows many units in multiple buildings directly next to this highway with no noise protection: https://maps.app.goo.gl/JA4jMPSSYsDBq5my5 https://maps.app.goo.gl/JA4jMPSSYsDBq5my5 Years ago I lived near a busy four-lane road with what seemed like a reasonable 60km/h speed limit. However, when it rained, the noise from the car tires on the wet road made it difficult to hear music from my radio. It was very unpleasant to leave the balcony doors open, as the constant din starts to work its way into your brain and make it very difficult to focus.
quoxi 1y ago
I was looking for an apartment on the SF Peninsula a couple years back. Nearly all apartment buildings constructed in recent years are right next to the freeway or right next to the CalTrain train tracks. Lots of air and noise pollution, and it feels like borderline hostility towards renters. Lived there for a short while and ultimately moved out of the Bay Area because of the poor options for renters in that area (although it gets better the further south you go) and of course the sky-high housing prices.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago

Streets are much quieter at lower speed limits. There is definitely room for improvement here from the traffic engineers.

gowld 1y ago
Downtown is very low speed but very noisy.
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  Say what you will about the suburbs but the grass and landscaping on each and every property is like noise cancelling foam being applied compared to the hardscaping downtown.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    This is why I moved to suburbs tbh Compared to the city it's so quiet and peaceful. My sleep is much better
potato3732842 1y ago
To a point. The problem is that the kind of people who are always screeching about traffic speeds are never satisfied and below a certain threshold the only way to go get slower is 4-way stops. And once those go in you get to listen to every motorcycle and delivery truck accelerate after the stop.

aegypti 1y ago

https://cayimby.org/legislation/sb-79/ https://cayimby.org/legislation/sb-79/ They will be allowed by right near any type of transit stop if SB79 goes through!

kjkjadksj 1y ago
This entrenches that behavior because the transit stops are often on arterials.
- aegypti 1y ago
  Hopefully the legislators have thought of this and extended the downzoning to half a mile even for BRT stops in the middle of the sunset district :)

gowld 1y ago

That's not a problem with the location. That's a problem with building materials. I've lives on the busiest street in town, with well insulated walls and windows that block out street noise. And I've lived in poorly -constructed suburban houses that admit noise from across the neighborhood.

layman51 1y ago
I disagree. The location is definitely a factor. If you live within 300 feet (about 100 meters) of a multi-lane highway, then depending on the wind patterns, you are definitely getting more exposure to pollutants that come from cars, trucks, or their brakes and tires. But no one in California is ready to talk about addressing this because it would require radically changing the status quo.
socalgal2 1y ago
So you’re saying people living in apartments are required to never open their windows? I’m all for better construction but I still want to be able to open my windows without having to let in tons of noise and car exhaust

sjs382 1y ago

> only allowed to be built on busy streets Is this true or a misleading observation? I can see some argument about it, increasing traffic in areas that aren't equipped for it if the building is large enough. But it might just be market forces, too: in larger cities, it's often more desirable to be near a major artery. Earplugs (if the noise bothers you) vs a longer commute.

aegypti 1y ago
It is quite literally illegal to build anything but detached single family homes on 95.8 percent of the total residential land area in California / 75% of the residential land area in most major American cities.
- trollbridge 1y ago
  "Residential land area"? Much of California's land has no zoning at all. Of course, it's not near any cities either (or near any road noise).
  - aegypti 1y ago
    It is illegal to build housing without a permit, and you will not be issued a permit on much of California’s land. Residential land area = land you can build housing on https://belonging.berkeley.edu/single-family-zoning-california-statewide-analysis https://belonging.berkeley.edu/single-family-zoning-californ...
- jobs_throwaway 1y ago
  Daily reminder that our zoning policy is deeply racist and evil
conradev 1y ago
I don’t know about “only allowed”, but this is a thing: https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senate-passes-senator-wieners-legislation-build-homes-near-public-transit-improve https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senate-passes-senator-wiener...

dackle 1y ago

Check out the location of these condos in downtown Toronto built alongside the Gardiner Expressway, a very busy 90km/h (~55mph) highway: https://maps.app.goo.gl/TGLCBJGbrSEkAm7W6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/TGLCBJGbrSEkAm7W6 The satellite view shows many units in multiple buildings directly next to this highway with no noise protection: https://maps.app.goo.gl/JA4jMPSSYsDBq5my5 https://maps.app.goo.gl/JA4jMPSSYsDBq5my5 Years ago I lived near a busy four-lane road with what seemed like a reasonable 60km/h speed limit. However, when it rained, the noise from the car tires on the wet road made it difficult to hear music from my radio. It was very unpleasant to leave the balcony doors open, as the constant din starts to work its way into your brain and make it very difficult to focus.

quoxi 1y ago

I was looking for an apartment on the SF Peninsula a couple years back. Nearly all apartment buildings constructed in recent years are right next to the freeway or right next to the CalTrain train tracks. Lots of air and noise pollution, and it feels like borderline hostility towards renters. Lived there for a short while and ultimately moved out of the Bay Area because of the poor options for renters in that area (although it gets better the further south you go) and of course the sky-high housing prices.