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Yeah as someone who writes C in C++, everytime I see posts bending over backwards trying to fit parameterized types into C I just cringe a little. I understand

Yeah as someone who writes C in C++, everytime I see posts bending over backwards trying to fit parameterized types into C I just cringe a little. I understand the appeal of sticking to pure C, but... why do that to yourself? Come on over, we've got lambdas, and operator overloading for those special circumstances... the water's fine!

pjmlp 1y ago
Some people will do as much as they can to hurt themselves, only to avoid using C++. Note as the newer versions are basically C++ without Classes kind of thing.
- glouwbug 1y ago
  I think the main appeal is subset lock-down and compile times. ~5000 lines in C gets me sub second iteration times, while ~5000 lines in C++ hits the 10 second mark. Including both iostream and format in C++ gets any project up into the ~1.5 second mark which kills my iteration interests. Second to that I'd say the appeal is just watching something you've known for a long time grow slowly and steadily.
  - kilpikaarna 1y ago
    This, and the two pages of incomprehensible compiler spam you get when you make a typo in C++.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Depends pretty much on where you do such typo. If you mean templates, a kind of solved problem since C++17 with static_assert and enable_if, moreso in C++20 with concepts.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Use binary libraries and modules, alongside incremental compilation and linking.
    - glouwbug 1y ago
      I can't really afford the link time optimization losses
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        It is called link time optimization for a reason.
        glouwbug 1y ago
        Which kills my iteration interests ;)
- uecker 1y ago
  I see it the other way round. People hurt themselves by using C++. C++ fans will never understand it, but it you can solve your problem in a much simpler way, this is far better.
  - TuxSH 1y ago
    IMHO C++ scales far better for large, self-contained, personal projects though it requires slightly more initial investment. And if you're targeting PC, you might be better off using Python to begin with (if perf is not a concern)
    - uecker 1y ago
      What specifically makes it scale better in your opinion?
      - TuxSH 1y ago
        - "All" C libraries use some form of namespacing (the typical mylib_dosomething kind of name); actual namespaces mean you don't write these prefixes over and over again when in the same namespace - "Most" C projects do basic OOP, many C projects even do inheritance via composition and a fair few of these do virtual dispatch too - Templates (esp. since C++20), lambda functions, overloads and more recently coroutines (which are fancy FSM in their impl), etc. reduce boilerplate a lot - Containers (whether std:: or one's own) are far easier to work with in C++, a lot less boilerplate overall (GDB leveraged this during their migration iirc) - string_view makes non-destructive substring manipulation a lot easier; chrono literals (in application code) make working with durations a lot more readable too In the past decade or two, major projects like GCC and GDB have migrated from C to C++. Obviously, C retains advantages over C++, but they are fairly limited: faster build times, not having to worry about exposing "extern C" interface in libraries, not having to worry about controversial features like exceptions and (contextually) magic statics and so on...
        rramadass 1y ago
        Nicely said! One other key thing is encapsulation provided via various C++ syntax which is missing in C (where only file scope is possible).
spc476 1y ago
So maybe you can answer the following question I have: what is a "protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor," and when was the last time you needed one?" At least with C, I understand the feature set and how they interact.
- jjmarr 1y ago
  Don't use inheritance and you won't have to find out.
- rramadass 1y ago
  This is just silly. C++ gives you a smorgasbord of multi-paradigm features. Everything has its place and you can mix and match your needed featureset based on project needs, team skillset etc. You don't have to know or learn everything.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Just because a feature is there doesn't mean you have to use it. Additionally the example isn't even possible, at least make ridiculous examples that compile.

pjmlp 1y ago

Some people will do as much as they can to hurt themselves, only to avoid using C++. Note as the newer versions are basically C++ without Classes kind of thing.

glouwbug 1y ago
I think the main appeal is subset lock-down and compile times. ~5000 lines in C gets me sub second iteration times, while ~5000 lines in C++ hits the 10 second mark. Including both iostream and format in C++ gets any project up into the ~1.5 second mark which kills my iteration interests. Second to that I'd say the appeal is just watching something you've known for a long time grow slowly and steadily.
- kilpikaarna 1y ago
  This, and the two pages of incomprehensible compiler spam you get when you make a typo in C++.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Depends pretty much on where you do such typo. If you mean templates, a kind of solved problem since C++17 with static_assert and enable_if, moreso in C++20 with concepts.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Use binary libraries and modules, alongside incremental compilation and linking.
  - glouwbug 1y ago
    I can't really afford the link time optimization losses
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      It is called link time optimization for a reason.
      - glouwbug 1y ago
        Which kills my iteration interests ;)
uecker 1y ago
I see it the other way round. People hurt themselves by using C++. C++ fans will never understand it, but it you can solve your problem in a much simpler way, this is far better.
- TuxSH 1y ago
  IMHO C++ scales far better for large, self-contained, personal projects though it requires slightly more initial investment. And if you're targeting PC, you might be better off using Python to begin with (if perf is not a concern)
  - uecker 1y ago
    What specifically makes it scale better in your opinion?
    - TuxSH 1y ago
      - "All" C libraries use some form of namespacing (the typical mylib_dosomething kind of name); actual namespaces mean you don't write these prefixes over and over again when in the same namespace - "Most" C projects do basic OOP, many C projects even do inheritance via composition and a fair few of these do virtual dispatch too - Templates (esp. since C++20), lambda functions, overloads and more recently coroutines (which are fancy FSM in their impl), etc. reduce boilerplate a lot - Containers (whether std:: or one's own) are far easier to work with in C++, a lot less boilerplate overall (GDB leveraged this during their migration iirc) - string_view makes non-destructive substring manipulation a lot easier; chrono literals (in application code) make working with durations a lot more readable too In the past decade or two, major projects like GCC and GDB have migrated from C to C++. Obviously, C retains advantages over C++, but they are fairly limited: faster build times, not having to worry about exposing "extern C" interface in libraries, not having to worry about controversial features like exceptions and (contextually) magic statics and so on...
      - rramadass 1y ago
        Nicely said! One other key thing is encapsulation provided via various C++ syntax which is missing in C (where only file scope is possible).

spc476 1y ago

So maybe you can answer the following question I have: what is a "protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor," and when was the last time you needed one?" At least with C, I understand the feature set and how they interact.

jjmarr 1y ago
Don't use inheritance and you won't have to find out.
rramadass 1y ago
This is just silly. C++ gives you a smorgasbord of multi-paradigm features. Everything has its place and you can mix and match your needed featureset based on project needs, team skillset etc. You don't have to know or learn everything.
pjmlp 1y ago
Just because a feature is there doesn't mean you have to use it. Additionally the example isn't even possible, at least make ridiculous examples that compile.