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I don't think Finland and Sweden would have joined NATO if this were just a pan-European power grab. They want to be separate countries. They joined because the

I don't think Finland and Sweden would have joined NATO if this were just a pan-European power grab. They want to be separate countries. They joined because they genuinely believe that Putin has his eye on them. That would be insane, but Putin is taking his playbook from the Cold War "madman" theory. He wants you to be guessing, which scatters your attention and misdirects your forces. The Soviet Union engaged in plenty of proxy wars with the West, but they always avoided engaging directly with Western Europe. Putin has upped the ante by attacking Ukraine, which the West considers an ally and was moving towards a formal alliance. That puts the madman theory in play. He makes rhetorical feints at Scandinavia. He knows the West won't ignore them, because they don't know if he's kidding. I concur that the UK is just sucking up to the US here. The US has become a very unreliable partner and Europe needs to find a way to mollify it while they figure out how they can deal with Putin's continuous needling by themselves.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
"Putin has an eye on Sweden" does not pass the most basic smell test, now even less than during the Cold War... My take is that Sweden wanted to abandon its historical neutrality formally to fully join the rest of the "group" but needed something to make the public agree. > which the West considers an ally and was moving towards a formal alliance. No, Ukraine was not an ally and was not going to join NATO. No-one even wanted Ukraine in the EU because it is so sht (dubbed the most corrupt country in Europe) before the Russian (re-)invasion and now, somehow, it should be fastracked... This is all the usual murky, dodgy dealings in geopolitics but Europeans have lost their "nose" for propaganda in the media, especially in the West where there is no such thing, right? > because they don't know if he's kidding* We know exactly what their strengths and our strengths are, and they know them, too. Russia is not going to invade the EU/NATO anymore than during the USSR times. Basic common sense, again.
- deleted 1y ago
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- mopsi 1y ago
  > "Putin has an eye on Sweden" does not pass the most basic smell test, now even less than during the Cold War... It does pass. Invading the Swedish island of Gotland would cut off air and sea routes to the Baltics, while a ground move against the Suwalki gap between Poland and Lithuania would sever land routes. Map: https://warsawinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Baltic-Sea-Map-NATO-Sweden-Finlands-vs-Russia-Warsaw-Institute-png.png https://warsawinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Balti... Keep in mind that Belarus should also be marked in red, because it hosts Russian forces and allows them free passage. It is one of the most obvious hostile moves against the EU and NATO, and Europe clearly doesn't have the means nor the will to launch a major war to liberate the countries. Everything hinges on the US, and we all know the state of things there.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    This is not realistic at all for the reasons already put forward. You could also claim that Russia could invade Gibraltar to gain control of the entry to the Med. Or they could try to get Alaska back, why not. This all does show the power of propaganda in mabufacturing public opinion.
    - mopsi 1y ago
      Not only is this realistic, but the affected countries are taking remarkable steps to counter it. Sweden withdrew its military presence from Gotland in 2005 and disbanded the Gotland Regiment. After Russia invaded Ukraine, Sweden re-established the regiment, returned tanks and IFVs and radars and air defense systems to Gotland, and is building up a brigade-strength task force to defend the island by 2027. Are the UK or the US prepositioning forces in Gibraltar and Alaska to repel an invasion, renovating bunkers and shelters, and making preparations to evacuate the civilian population?
      - mytailorisrich 1y ago
        Interestingly you are not replying to my points. You are only repeating what the media tell the public. Now, it is perfectly norm0al for Sweden to secure its territory. But the narrative and policies go way beyond this and, again, my take is that Russia is just a pretext to implement those by overblowing the threat.

mytailorisrich 1y ago

"Putin has an eye on Sweden" does not pass the most basic smell test, now even less than during the Cold War... My take is that Sweden wanted to abandon its historical neutrality formally to fully join the rest of the "group" but needed something to make the public agree. > which the West considers an ally and was moving towards a formal alliance. No, Ukraine was not an ally and was not going to join NATO. No-one even wanted Ukraine in the EU because it is so sht (dubbed the most corrupt country in Europe) before the Russian (re-)invasion and now, somehow, it should be fastracked... This is all the usual murky, dodgy dealings in geopolitics but Europeans have lost their "nose" for propaganda in the media, especially in the West where there is no such thing, right? > because they don't know if he's kidding* We know exactly what their strengths and our strengths are, and they know them, too. Russia is not going to invade the EU/NATO anymore than during the USSR times. Basic common sense, again.

deleted 1y ago
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mopsi 1y ago
> "Putin has an eye on Sweden" does not pass the most basic smell test, now even less than during the Cold War... It does pass. Invading the Swedish island of Gotland would cut off air and sea routes to the Baltics, while a ground move against the Suwalki gap between Poland and Lithuania would sever land routes. Map: https://warsawinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Baltic-Sea-Map-NATO-Sweden-Finlands-vs-Russia-Warsaw-Institute-png.png https://warsawinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Balti... Keep in mind that Belarus should also be marked in red, because it hosts Russian forces and allows them free passage. It is one of the most obvious hostile moves against the EU and NATO, and Europe clearly doesn't have the means nor the will to launch a major war to liberate the countries. Everything hinges on the US, and we all know the state of things there.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  This is not realistic at all for the reasons already put forward. You could also claim that Russia could invade Gibraltar to gain control of the entry to the Med. Or they could try to get Alaska back, why not. This all does show the power of propaganda in mabufacturing public opinion.
  - mopsi 1y ago
    Not only is this realistic, but the affected countries are taking remarkable steps to counter it. Sweden withdrew its military presence from Gotland in 2005 and disbanded the Gotland Regiment. After Russia invaded Ukraine, Sweden re-established the regiment, returned tanks and IFVs and radars and air defense systems to Gotland, and is building up a brigade-strength task force to defend the island by 2027. Are the UK or the US prepositioning forces in Gibraltar and Alaska to repel an invasion, renovating bunkers and shelters, and making preparations to evacuate the civilian population?
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      Interestingly you are not replying to my points. You are only repeating what the media tell the public. Now, it is perfectly norm0al for Sweden to secure its territory. But the narrative and policies go way beyond this and, again, my take is that Russia is just a pretext to implement those by overblowing the threat.