10 ms·

The Effect of Noise on Sleep

152 points by brandonb 1y ago

jabo 1y ago
Wonder if white noise counts as noise from this perspective. Or if it’s mainly unexpected noises that make sleep quality worse.
- rybosworld 1y ago
  In many animals, hearing gets less sensitive in general when they sleep. I think it's common for people to be surprised by that, but it works that way to maximize sleep function. Dog's are thought to be an exception, because part of their domestication involved selection for the offspring that was more alert (watch dogs). The brain is thought to be hyper sensitive to a certain subset of sounds while sleeping, such as babies crying. White noise is thought to work by drowning out the sounds we are most sensitive to.
foobarian 1y ago
> threshold effect: keeping bedroom sound levels beneath the low-60s dB (roughly the volume of normal conversation) A common source matching this description would be having a TV on in the bedroom.
lm2s 1y ago
Would love to know what kind of noise and sound level was used for this test. Was it a continuous monotonous noise (such as white/pink/brown noise) at a fixed volume? Or was it some random noise that would "pop-up" randomly? Does anyone know? I would imagine that a noise that would randomly "pop-up" would be worse. But would be curious if that's not the case.
- brandonb 1y ago
  This was ambient noise in the room, as measured by an Apple Watch. So “random,” real world noises that pop up, as opposed to a controlled level of white noise.
- cheeseomlit 1y ago
  That's also what I was wondering- I sleep with a fan on for the white noise, otherwise I sleep very poorly if at all. I wonder if that sort of 'covers up' the spikes in noise you'd be hearing if the room were otherwise silent
- maerF0x0 1y ago
  +1 also thought about this. Something like the variability of noise (eg, maybe figure out the 25th percentile dbs across the night, and then count the spikes above that? or maybe count the number of times the slope goes above a certain value indicating sharp rises in volume that would disturb someone?) I also would love to simply see the data based on the average of "N loudest moment(s)" during the sleep. eg: treat the dbs score for that night as the average of the N loudest moments over the night, and plot a series of graphs that show various values of N. (or make it 3d, but i've found many folks are not capable of reading those kinds of graphs)
proee 1y ago
So just use some good quality earplugs?
- kogus 1y ago
  I personally would not be able to sleep well with earplugs. The feeling of pressure in my ears, combined with the 'pushing' of the earplug if I rolled over to lay on my side would be very uncomfortable.
  - ay 1y ago
    Try “3M earplugs yellow” on amazon. They are pretty much fully immersed in the ear (for me), and the insulation is very good. The pressure - yeah it took maybe a few days to get used to, but… The effects for me (living in Brussels city centre, so quite noisy - police, ambulance, sometimes loud tourists past midnight, and a bit of construction at 6am nearby to keep it real :-) ) were very pronounced: From needing 9 hours and feeling groggy in the mornings anyway, to easily going on 7-8, feeling very refreshed and alert each day. A cool side effect was that this superpower works also while traveling - so, I no longer care how noisy the airco is in the hotel room, being next to the lift, or having the window above the lively bar. The only downside with those earplugs that they are good maybe for 3-4 nights and then are too squished to be useful; but the upsides more than make it up for me.
    - modo_mario 1y ago
      It's rare for me to encounter another Belgian on HN but I'll definitely try this. Sleeping roadside till i have my upper floor renovated has been a disaster for my sleep and functioning.
    - rickydroll 1y ago
      I've tried the squishy foam earplugs, and they always fall out. Other suggestions, such as silicone and custom earplugs, are something I'm going to try. Let's see if they help. However, what destroys my sleep is the light from early morning, streetlights, and the neighbor's porch light. Unfortunately, our bedroom faces southeast and features French doors that open onto an east-facing three-season porch, allowing sunlight to stream in. Yeah, I've got curtains everywhere, and I have room-darkening curtains on order. If those don't work, the next step is putting solar panels over my bedroom windows. I figure if I'm going to keep light out, I might as well put it to work some other way. As an experiment, I'm using my car camping mattress in my office, which is the quietest room in the house, and I'm blocking the light from the windows with curtains and cardboard. So far, it's the best sleep I've had in years. There's a bit of domestic disharmony now, but hopefully my partner and I can work out a compromise on light-blocking curtains and keeping them fucking shut.
tobyhinloopen 1y ago
I find this hard to believe this is universally true. I sleep much worse without noise. I use a fan or a speaker to add noise to the room. If I don't, I wake up constantly.
- mrob 1y ago
  That could be because your added noise is masking other noise with worse effects.
- brandonb 1y ago
  This is an interesting hypotheses—I think we could test it by looking at intra-night variance in noise. I’ll try to do a follow up!
- hugeBirb 1y ago
  White noise and wave sounds != A motorcycle with the loudest exhaust imaginable blasting by your house going 100mph at 3am
thm 1y ago
Advertorial w/ PG name-drop.
stavros 1y ago
I've been having issues sleeping lately, and a few days ago, the flat below us started demolishing walls at 8am. This has been going on for a week, and I've never slept better. It sounds like they're demolishing the floor I'm sleeping on, but somehow I can just ignore it and sleep soundly, whereas normally I wake up with the smallest sound, like a dog barking outside my soundproof windows. Very odd.
- lurking_swe 1y ago
  Maybe record it for an hour or so. Then after the construction stops you can play it back as “soothing” sleep noise. ;)
- Kerbonut 1y ago
  That's like Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinny where he stays overnight in a cabin and wakes up and freaks out at every little noise, but when he's held in contempt and there's a prison riot going on, he's sleeping like a baby.
aaron695 1y ago
[dead]
codyb 1y ago
I can't tell you what sirens outside do to my sleep, but I can tell you they can be very agitating when I'm trying to fall asleep. It's funny though how during the recent heat dome I could barely sleep after sealing the windows cause of just how dang quiet it was! Fickle mistress sleep be.
bumby 1y ago
A couple things: 1) I’d like to see additional measures beyond dB. A 50dB consistent white noise does not bother me (and may even enhance my sleep) but an intermittent off/on sound of the same magnitude has a very different effect 2) what is the accuracy of the consumer metrics compared to medical benchmarks? In other words, how reliable are the sleep measures of consumer devices? Anecdotally, I’ve noticed my watch thinks I’m sleeping sometimes when I watch a movie, and I’ve heard MDs say the metrics aren’t accurate enough to make strong conclusions.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Yes i always sleep with a nature sound generator. It's comforting.
- thesuitonym 1y ago
  It would also be interesting to see the effects of intermittent noise when there is ambient background noise.
- willsmith72 1y ago
  yes, that would be nice to have. but surely the data we have already would suggest for the benefit of our entire society, especially children (with the link between good sleep and mental development), we should incentivise thicker windows, better sills and other quick wins now
  - bumby 1y ago
    To the point above, we should be careful about making strong conclusions if there is a lot of uncertainty in the underlying data.
    - willsmith72 1y ago
      On the contrary, we gain more by making faster decisions than we do by being 100% precise
      - 1y ago
cwmoore 1y ago
Ask an inmate: https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article240396741.html https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article240396741.html EDIT/TLDR: highly effective
- jilles 1y ago
  There might be some other factors in that situation that prevent one from having a restful night.
  - cwmoore 1y ago
    Might be! And some people might not deserve sleep! But "every half hour with pipe-like electronic devices that cause loud clanging noises" seems to be the specific relevant factor. "Stanford University sleep medicine professor who says in a court-filed declaration that Lipsey “is exposed to unrelenting noise that is out of his control that can further (fuel) his insomnia and potentially worsens his health.”
conradev 1y ago
A lot of folks are talking about the “consistency” of a sound (constant white noise vs random sounds) and its volume, but I feel like the nature of the sound matters a lot more. I’ll respond much differently to my bedroom door opening or a voice speaking than I do a bus outside. It reminds me of the anecdote where human researchers rang bells near bears (human sounds) and the bears didn’t care, but if they broke a large bundle of branches (bear sounds), the bears went berserk. I feel like our subconscious is a lot more involved here than we give it credit for.
- mmahemoff 1y ago
  This is especially true for sleep since we can be pretty good at incorporating external sounds into our dreams. It's been shown in controlled experiments. Seems likely that certain noises are generically easier to integrate into dreams than other noises, which could just cause you to wake up or have your sleep otherwise impaired.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- alexyaseen 1y ago
  why don't more hotels seem to understand this? so often I find that even nice hotels have very minimal background noise but poor soundproofing of the doors. so hallway noise disrupts sleep so much
  - gowld 1y ago
    Because good materials cost more than "fancy" decorations.
  - sandspar 1y ago
    When hotels buy doors, they optimize for things like cost, fireproofing, and weight (so guests and housecleaning can open them easily). Noise cancelling is a nice-to-have, but if you're buying and maintaining ~100 room doors (USA average per hotel), then you have to cut costs somewhere. On top of that, hotel hallway environments tend to be noisy in the first place. We're talking long, narrow hallways with hard walls, plus constant streams of holidaymakers who aren't exactly tiptoeing around.
YossarianFrPrez 1y ago
Some days I joke that there should be a set of Nobel prizes for making machines quieter. Categories could include: air-conditioning units and mini-fridges, construction and landscaping equipment, old university buildings, pump-housings, etc. The quality of life of many would be improved if we had quieter machines. It boggles my mind that a) in many hotel rooms one can hear a good deal of machine noise and neighbors' televisions, and b) that some sort of noise score (as calculated from DB meter measurements) isn't more widely available for things like apartment rentals, conference room bookings, etc.
- stronglikedan 1y ago
  > making machines quieter It's already possible, just not profitable.
  - mrexroad 1y ago
    Exactly. That’s where the other comment about a “noise tax”, or enact fines for exceeding limits, are probably necessary to shift the calculus. Japan is a good case study [1]. If nothing else, it’s fun to look at the charts showing noise reductions—not just in aggregate, but for each contributing input (e.g. engine, intake, exhaust, tires, cooling)—for both passenger vehicles and heavy equipment. Unfortunately, in the US, we have a few obstacles to legislation like this, least of which being public apathy as majority of voters who are not exposed to high sound levels daily. “Japan's primary legislation governing noise regulation is the Environmental Noise Regulation Act, first introduced in 1986 and subsequently amended in 1999. This act sets different noise limits for different times of the day, with the maximum allowable noise level during the day set at 55 decibels and reduced to 45 decibels at night to prevent disturbances to those who are sleeping. Violators of these standards are subject to penalties.” [1] https://www.lios-group.com/news/noise-regulations-in-japan-one-of-the-most-urbanised-countries-in-the-world https://www.lios-group.com/news/noise-regulations-in-japan-o...
- willsmith72 1y ago
  what about a noise tax? my city has some electric buses and some ancient buses - the difference obviously is absolutely huge, but right now the financial incentives aren't there to upgrade the whole fleet
WhereIsTheTruth 1y ago
I find it fascinating that as a society, we allowed automobiles to pass close to homes I'm glad we are finally going to transition to EVs.. about time
- 7jjjjjjj 1y ago
  At a distance, most of the noise from a car is road noise, not engine noise.
- rebeccaskinner 1y ago
  Unfortunately even without engine noise people will still install gigantic subwoofers in their car and roll around rattling windows. This has consistently been the biggest problem with my sleep for years, and nothing I've been able to do (including trying to move to different locations) has helped because they are so incredibly loud and prevalent these days.
  - anal_reactor 1y ago
    I bought an apartment next to a cycling path that connects the area to the city centre and that was singlehandedly the biggest mistake of my life, because the path also allows mopeds, which have engines orders of magnitude louder than loudest cars. This is insanity. Thankfully, the city is planning to ban fossil-fuel mopeds within five years. They already started phasing them out, you can't register a new one, only old ones are allowed. These are going to be five very long years though. Also, it's a mostly black area, which means people hanging out and talking right in front of the apartment building, even though there's a public park five minutes of walk away. When I was searching for an apartment to buy, there was one on tenth floor, and I regret not buying that one, because I'd be shielded from all the noise on the street. I was fully conviced that I'd be able to stomach living in poorer area and wait for gentrification to happen. I can live with trash on the street. I can live with vandalism. I can live with beggars by the supermarket. I can live with theft and other crime. But the noise. The noise is fucking unbearable. My dream is to wait until the apartment doubles or triples in value, then sell it, and move to rural shithole where nobody lives.
mmahemoff 1y ago
I wish someone could solve the problem at the receiver end, i.e., invent noise-cancelling headphones/earplugs that actually cancel noise as effectively as eye-masks cancel light. In addition to sleep needs, the world has gotten noisier now that people are habitually using speakerphones in public in the most obnoxious ways.
- dmoy 1y ago
  I mean.... https://westone.com/defendear-sleep https://westone.com/defendear-sleep Gets you some pretty good quiet for sleep. It's not active noise cancelling, but they work pretty well. Anecdotally if you wear a pair of westone solids, and then a pair of earmuffs on top of that, you are basically just hearing through your bones, which can't be avoided (with passive or active).
- hn_throw2025 1y ago
  I used to use mouldable silicone ear plugs : https://bioears.co.uk/products/bioears-ear-plugs https://bioears.co.uk/products/bioears-ear-plugs Very effective, but eventually they made me just focus on my tinnitus. I now live in a quieter place and use some white noise from a speaker - ocean sounds.
  - jks 1y ago
    These are the most comfortable earplugs I've used: https://www.elacin.com/your-perfect-fit/leisure/relax-sleep/ https://www.elacin.com/your-perfect-fit/leisure/relax-sleep/ Currently I use Ozlo Sleepbuds which are not quite as comfortable and a little finicky to operate, but I like the masking noise.
Anechoic 1y ago
FYI, there's been tons of research of the effects of noise on sleep from different sources. There have been studies ranging from in-lab experiments, to in-home experiments with artificial and natural sources. If you're interested, some resources: Institute of Noise Control Engineering Digital library: https://www.inceusa.org/publications/ince-digital-library/ https://www.inceusa.org/publications/ince-digital-library/ (papers older than 10 years old are available free) Federal Interagency Committee on Aviation Noise: https://fican1.wordpress.com/findings/ https://fican1.wordpress.com/findings/ (focuses on aviation noise) Acoustical Society of America Lay Language Papers: https://acoustics.org/lay-language-papers/ https://acoustics.org/lay-language-papers/ (search for "sleep" -- the ASA has a full library of more detailed research but the documents cost money unless you're an ASA member) World Health Organization guidelines on noise - https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/343936/WHO-EURO-2018-3287-43046-60243-eng.pdf?sequence=2 https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/343936/WHO-EURO-... (doesn't get into specifics on research on sleep, but does refer recommended limits to sleep disturbance) NIH has done a bunch of research on sleep disturbance from noise, you would need to search through their library edit (one more): TRB/National Academies https://nap.nationalacademies.org/search/?rpp=20&ft=1&term=noise%20sleep https://nap.nationalacademies.org/search/?rpp=20&ft=1&term=n... A lot of the stuff that posters are asking for have in fact been done, it just takes some digging through the research sites to find them. There's a lot of variation in the data, the hypothesis is that sleep sensitivity varies a lot based on various physical factors (age being a big one).
- ChuckMcM 1y ago
  Interesting, perhaps age related deafness contributes.
  - Ntrails 1y ago
    I'd expect the relationship goes the other way around. Most old people I know sleep lightly comparatively
  - schiffern 1y ago
    >age-related deafness Interestingly, there's been some suggestion that hearing loss is not inevitable with age, but is mostly just the accumulation of noise-related hearing loss in a loud industrial society. https://canadianaudiologist.ca/a-new-perspective-on-chronic-conductive-hearing-loss/ https://canadianaudiologist.ca/a-new-perspective-on-chronic-... https://www.icben.org/2017/ICBEN%202017%20Papers/SubjectArea01_Fink_0102_2331.pdf https://www.icben.org/2017/ICBEN%202017%20Papers/SubjectArea... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00660-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00660-3 I think partly the issue is that how we measure noise doesn't match how noise causes injury. Your cochlea acts as a spiral resonant tube, essentially a "physical FFT," concentrating energy at a particular frequency onto a particular location in the spiral. Too much (local!) energy damages the hair cells, causing conductive hearing loss. But because we calculate A-weighted decibels by summing all frequencies and then checking if we're above the injury threshold (vs checking whether we exceed the injury threshold at any frequency), using A-weighted decibels can't accurately determine damaging noise levels. If all the energy is concentrated at Middle A it will cause more damage than spreading the energy out across the spectrum, even if the A-weighted decibels come out equal. It's a somewhat subtle, wrong order-of-operations problem. There's also a separate problem that A-weighting is designed to normalize for perception at various frequencies, not hearing damage. I've tried searching the literature to find out whether this is either 1)wrong, or 2)generally known within the fields of audiology and occupational hygiene, but so far I've come up empty. -- I recall an HN poster long ago saying how they wore earplugs daily to achieve "super hearing." It occurs to me that all they were doing was actually protecting their ears from damage. :-|
Magi604 1y ago
My apartment is along a corridor that is frequented by emergency vehicles, so sirens are frequent during normal sleep hours, and my apartment windows face the sunrise. I've adopted a number of things over the years to combat all of this: - Blackout curtains - Earplugs - White noise maker (just an air purifier but it does the same thing) - 3mg Melatonin
uludag 1y ago
I've been using earplugs practically every night for the past three years and I can't recommend them enough. While the particular kind I use (Mack's ultra soft) don't block out all the noise, there is a wide variety of noises that used to wake me up which don't anymore. If you haven't tried them I would highly recommend giving sleeping with earplugs a shot. It only takes a few days or so to get used to them. In terms of downsides, only once in the past three years did I get some earwax clogged in some part of my ear which was easy to remove with some special spray (went to urgent care). Also, I have a very hard time sleeping without them anymore so I always make sure to have a pair at hand. Also, you may have to experiment with various brands and types as some brands are really uncomfortable and hurt my ear.
- octo888 1y ago
  3M 1100 work great for me. You can get a box of 200 pairs Unfortunately they changed a bit the past few years to be slightly less comfortable but I still find them the best overall
  - Arainach 1y ago
    Foam are significantly less comfortable for side sleeping and block less noise than Silicone (Mack's) which still come in large sets for well under $1/pair.
    - octo888 1y ago
      Ear plugs are highly personal I find. People need to find what works for them. I can't stand wax or silicone earplugs for example. I sleep on my side
    - jagaerglad 1y ago
      I don't know about the 1100 but I have another model (ear classic), just simple foam earplugs, of the same manufacturer. Having gone through many different foam, silicon etc plugs from the pharmacy and grocery shop, the 3M are undeniably the best I've ever had. No pain from the foam expanding bigger than the ear canal (although it's initially bigger), no itching from sweat etc, no pressure on the eardrum when side-sleeping (that tinnitus feeling from some foam earplugs). They are literally perfect, and the noise blocking is the best I've experienced. I don't know what it is but perhaps they have some foam patented that only they use (probably poisonous or something in true evil company fashion though) The only reason I tried them is that I found myself in a situation where my standard silicone earplugs were gone and where somebody gave me a box of hundreds of earplugs they didn't manage to sell at a concert. I was bracing myself for a terrible night of ear pain, but was pleasantly surprised of how superior they were to anything I had tried, still using earplugs from the very same box as my night-to-night noise relief
mmh0000 1y ago
I’ve spent years “fixing” my sleep. Things I recommend: * a sleep tracker. I love AutoSleep - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autosleep-track-sleep-on-watch/id1164801111 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autosleep-track-sleep-on-watch... * Any kind of white noise. I use an air purifier at home, and a little pocket size white noise machine when I travel. * find and eliminate any noises in your home. Computers, fridges, squeaky doors, etc. * find and eliminate any lights. Especially stupid power and status LEDs. Bedroom should be pitch black at night. Electrical tape works well for this. * Blackout curtains * cheap eye mask * Magnesium Glycate supplement * Earplugs- https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0015TBGR6 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0015TBGR6 * And finally, a recent addition that I’ve fallen in love with is sleep ear buds: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT9GBFQ2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT9GBFQ2 Although, I would wait on getting sleep ear buds, Anker just announced a new model with ANC and a similar price.
- codybontecou 1y ago
  Appreciate the list. How do you eliminate fridge noise (besides replacing the fridge entirely)?
- yukIttEft 1y ago
  I have a street in front of my bedroom and I'm wondering how well ANC earbuds work in that case. Will it be completely silent or will there still be some kind of whoosh-sound?
  - delecti 1y ago
    A large quantity of disposable earplugs is so cheap that I'd recommend you try that before investing time and money into ANC earbuds. My spouse snores loudly, and a $15 container of 50 pairs has lasted more than 2 years, and saved our ability to co-sleep (I was only a couple nights away from moving to our guest room). We're also on a street with a very permissive speed limit, and we're under the approach path of the nearby airport, and it's never a problem. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051U7W32 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051U7W32 I got these, $15 for 50 pairs; the GP comment is $40 for 200 pairs which is a better value but more investment if you wind up dissatisfied
octo888 1y ago
Low frequency noise is the worst. Extremely difficult often impossible to eliminate without a lot of expense. Travels long distances. Absolute nightmare for people sensitive to noise
socalgal2 1y ago
I don't know how to state this well but I find the fact that nearly all new apartment buildings in California are only allowed to be built on busy streets very frustrating. I'm guessing it's part nimby-ism and part zoning but every time I see a new apartment complex it's next to the busiest streets in the city (LA, SF). It's like many things, if you want health you must be rich. If you can't afford a house then F.U. You get a loud apartment with constant traffic noise. I *almost* feel like it should be illegal to build them next to the freeway like Those ones just north of SFO next to the 110: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27 https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27 The ones in downtown LA next to the 110: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16 https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16 The ones north of LAX at Howard Hughes: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6 I don't actually think I think they should be illegal but dang it, I wish there were more options for new apartments. In LA there are lots of older apartment buildings in quiet residential neighborhoods built 50+ years ago. https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6 They are no longer allowed to be built AFAICT.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  Streets are much quieter at lower speed limits. There is definitely room for improvement here from the traffic engineers.
  - gowld 1y ago
    Downtown is very low speed but very noisy.
    - kjkjadksj 1y ago
      Say what you will about the suburbs but the grass and landscaping on each and every property is like noise cancelling foam being applied compared to the hardscaping downtown.
      - 1y ago
emsign 1y ago
I'm using pink noise to suppress my REM phase and get more deep sleep when my body needs extra regeneration at the expense of mental regeneration. Luckily there's none of that random street noise in my neighborhood.
todotask2 1y ago
I have even worse noise in my area — a widespread ground vibration across a few kilometers, like a constant loud 50Hz hum that causes a tingling sensation in my body. You can’t even block it by covering your ears. I've been experiencing this frequently, both thru the night and during the day, for the past five years here in Singapore has affected my sleep rhythm, can't sleep with that noise. I've unemployed for the past 5 years.
- octo888 1y ago
  Low frequency noise is the worst! Probably a stupid question but do you know anyone else that can hear it? I had a low-frequency version of tinnitus and I spent weeks thinking it was some external noise
  - todotask2 1y ago
    My mum hears it too, but the local authorities simply claimed they couldn't hear anything during that brief moment. They’d have to stay overnight to really hear and feel it — inside a room, not just in a public space. It even vibrate my eardrum like I'm sitting on an F16 pilot seat. I don't hear it in other districts. I wish there were an expert or researcher interested in these areas: residential buildings, shops, parks, churches, and schools.
    - lurking_swe 1y ago
      i’d try getting this in front of a journalist or news station. They may be more excited to investigate “weird” claims like this one. Sorry to hear about your situation.
      - todotask2 1y ago
        I tried by emailing to them and got no respond.
    - Anechoic 1y ago
      I wish there were an expert or researcher interested in these areas: residential buildings, shops, parks, churches, and schools. You mean an expert in acoustics related to those areas? There are lots of experts and researchers. Take a look at the Acoustical Society of America, the Institute of Noise Control Engineering, and Council for Accreditation in Occupational Hearing Conservation for starters. Penn State, University of Hartford, Purdue University, Michigan Technological University, University of Nebraska, Morgan State Univeristy, and Brigham Young University (among others) all have strong acoustics programs with research in a bunch of areas.
compumike 1y ago
Interesting! It could be a confounder as well. For example, maybe people who live in dense (loud) urban dwellings also tend to have more day-to-day life stress generally, leading to reduced sleep quality. (Of course, reduced sleep quality could also be a source of more life stress...) Would your userbase be up for a little experiment: adding white/pink/rainfall/etc noise at various volumes? I bet you'd see an inverted U shaped curve, with sleep quality increasing at relatively low volume levels, and then hitting some maximum and decreasing when it gets too loud! (Agree with other comments about looking at intra-night variance in noise level.)
mancerayder 1y ago
Incredibly, the noise insulation between floors and ESPECIALLY walls in both hotels around the world and even expensive, modern apartment buildings in Manhattan is absolutely atrocious. So I end up booking Airbnb's when I travel and renting top floors whenever I can. I find the build quality of new buildings (again, even uber luxury apartment condos) in the U.S. absolutely crap compared to Europe (I'm thinking especially of France and Germany). Over here on HN you have a strong contingent of people who push pro-density, pro-city, and anti-car. But some people (like myself) who suffer from a sensitive sleep are deeply affected and consider moving to the woods away from people just for this problem. I find the 'SLAM' sound of doors (in New York there's a spring loading per building code), the stomp stomp of upstairs, and the bass music of adjacent neighbors to be deeply disruptive from a psychological perspective.
joquarky 1y ago
While in the subject of noise, I'd like some research on the effect of "popcorn" tuned car exhausts on the mental health of people suffering from PTSD or are just generally sensitive.
dariosalvi78 1y ago
The worst is this a "fashion" of modifying vehicles, illegally, to make them sound like airplanes. I live in Sweden and, believe me, it is absolute hell on hearth.
0xjunhao 1y ago
FYI a literature review from a deep research AI ====== The effect of noise on sleep is multifaceted, involving various types of noise exposure, physiological mechanisms, and consequences on sleep quality and health. I. Introduction Environmental and occupational noise refers to unwanted or harmful sounds from sources such as traffic, aircraft, railways, and workplaces. Noise pollution is a significant public health issue due to its widespread prevalence and impact on sleep and overall health. II. Types of Noise Exposure Environmental noise includes road traffic, aircraft, and railway noise. Aircraft noise, for example, has been shown to negatively affect sleep in children, whereas road traffic noise may have less impact on autonomic activity during sleep [Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children]. Occupational noise exposure also contributes to sleep disturbances and has been linked to sleep loss and fragmentation [The effects of occupational noise on sleep]. Intentional masking noise such as white or pink noise is sometimes used as a sleep aid to improve sleep quality in noisy environments [The effects of white noise on sleep]. III. Physiological Mechanisms During sleep, the auditory system continues to process sounds, and noise can lower arousal thresholds, causing awakenings or micro-arousals. Noise exposure activates the autonomic nervous system, increasing heart rate and blood pressure, and stimulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, leading to hormonal and metabolic changes [Environmental noise and sleep disturbances]. IV. Effects on Sleep Architecture Noise exposure reduces total sleep time and sleep efficiency, increases sleep fragmentation, and causes more frequent micro-arousals. It also alters sleep stages by decreasing deep sleep (slow-wave sleep) and REM sleep, which are critical for restorative sleep [Effects of environmental noise on sleep]. V. Health and Daytime Consequences Poor sleep due to noise leads to daytime sleepiness, cognitive impairments, and mood disturbances. Chronic noise-related sleep disruption is associated with increased cardiovascular and metabolic risks, such as hypertension and glucose metabolism disturbances. It also negatively affects quality of life and can contribute to burnout [Environmental Noise and Effects on Sleep], [Effects of personal noise exposure, sleep quality, and burnout]. VI. Vulnerable and Special Populations Children are particularly sensitive to noise, with aircraft noise shown to disrupt their sleep more than road traffic noise. Older adults and individuals with pre-existing sleep disorders are also more vulnerable to noise-induced sleep disturbances [Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children]. VII. Noise as a Sleep Aid Paradoxically, steady background noise such as white or pink noise can improve sleep quality by masking disruptive environmental sounds. Studies have shown that white noise can significantly enhance subjective and objective sleep measures in noisy urban settings. However, potential downsides include hearing damage and psychological dependency on noise for sleep [Noise as a sleep aid: A systematic review], [The effects of white noise on sleep]. VIII. Mitigation and Future Directions Effective strategies to mitigate noise effects on sleep include engineering controls like soundproofing, use of earplugs, and regulatory noise limits. Behavioral interventions and public health policies are also important. Future research is needed to clarify long-term effects, dose-response relationships, and to develop personalized interventions [The Effect of Room Acoustics on the Sleep Quality of Healthy Sleepers]. In summary, noise negatively impacts sleep by disrupting sleep architecture and triggering physiological stress responses, leading to adverse health outcomes. While some forms of noise can aid sleep by masking disturbances, overall noise reduction remains critical for improving sleep quality and health. References Environmental noise and sleep disturbances: A threat to health? Demian Halperin et al. Sleep Science, 2014 Nov 15. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4608916/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4608916/ Poor sleep causes measurable changes on these systems. Experimental studies demonstrated that both sleep restriction and poor quality sleep affect glucose ... Effects of environmental noise on sleep Kenneth I Hume et al. Noise & health, 2012. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23257581/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23257581/ This paper summarizes the findings from the past 3 year's research on the effects of environmental noise on sleep and identifies key future research goals. The Effect of Room Acoustics on the Sleep Quality of Healthy Sleepers Ingo Fietze et al. Noise & Health, 2016 Sep-Oct. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5187651/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5187651/ Noise is one of the factors that can seriously disturb sleep, and sound volume is an important factor in this context. One strategy involves avoiding ... Noise as a sleep aid: A systematic review Samantha M. Riedy et al. Sleep Medicine Reviews, 2021/02/01. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079220301283 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870... ... sleep aid, especially since it may also negatively affect sleep and hearing. ... Suzuki et al. Sleep deepening effect of steady pink noise. J Sound Vib. (1991). Environmental Noise and Effects on Sleep: An Update to the WHO Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis Michael G Smith et al. Environmental Health Perspectives, 2022 Jul 11. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9272916/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9272916/ Jul 11, 2022 ... To what extent have the following outcomes of railway noise occurred in the past 12 months? Railway noise disturbs when falling asleep. Not ... Effects of personal noise exposure, sleep quality, and burnout on quality of life: An online participation cohort study in Taiwan Ta-Chien Chan et al. Science of The Total Environment, 2024/03/10. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969724001190 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972... Mar 10, 2024 ... To our knowledge, this is the first study to explore the pathways through which daily noise exposure, sleep quality, and personal burnout affect ... Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children according to Source https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476937/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476937/ Road traffic noise did not significantly alter sleep or autonomic activity in children, whereas aircraft noise exerted a negative effect on sleep. The effects of occupational noise on sleep: A systematic review Saeid Yazdanirad et al. Sleep Medicine Reviews, 2023/12/01. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079223001028 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870... One of the important effects due to noise exposure is sleep loss/disturbance, which has received less attention. Sleep disturbance is defined as problems with ... The effects of white noise on sleep and duration in individuals living in a high noise environment in New York City Matthew R Ebben et al. Sleep medicine, 2021/7. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34049045/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34049045/ Our data show that white noise significantly improved sleep based on subjective and objective measurements in subjects complaining of difficulty sleeping.
socalgal2 1y ago
I wish they’d make car alarms illegal. afaict they do nothing. no one looks. It does not stop car theft or breakins. all it does ruin everyone’s sleep. Especially in 2025, if you want to know if your car is being whatever triggers an alarm then have it send you a message that only bothers you and not several hundred other people. There is your new startup idea for ycombinator. car alarm app with optional $$$ track down service :p
- esseph 1y ago
  I promise you there are still plenty of places where if a car alarm goes off, that people are paying attention.
  - socalgal2 1y ago
    I promise you there are not. In fact, I'll challenge you to find some data supporting your promise. I can't find any. I find some that says steering wheel locks work. I find some that says stuff that shuts off the car works. But none that finds that alarms do anything. "Highway Loss Data Institute studies show no overall reduction in theft losses for vehicles with alarms" (from 74 million car insurance data) https://web.archive.org/web/20040804022308/http://www.silentmajorityny.org/links/hldi-article.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20040804022308/http://www.silent... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/car-alarms-dont-work-why-so-common/482769/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/car-ala...
    - esseph 1y ago
      It would be the loudest thing around me for 25 miles. One of us would either knock on the door of the place until the owner came out, or somebody would shoot the car until it stopped making noise. A car alarm in my environment would be an anomaly, not the norm.
pedalpete 1y ago
I didn't see a link to the paper, so can only assume they were introducing new noises at randomized decibel levels to study participants. My start-up uses sound to enhance sleep's restorative function. So blankly saying "noise at decibel level x disrupts sleep" is not true. Over the last 10 years, research has shown that precisely timed micro-auditory stimulations increase slow-wave activity, and accompanying biomarkers of health. There are now more than 50 published peer-reviewed papers regarding this phenomenon. We link to some of these on our website https://affectablesleep.com https://affectablesleep.com Environmental noise is different than precise stimulation based noise, but most of us have an adaptation level to environmental noise. I remember when I first moved to Chile having dinner with an Argentinian and an Indian, and the Argentinian said the streets in Santiago were so loud it was important to get an apartment on a higher floor. The Indian guy looked around and was like "what noise"? To him, Santiago was a peaceful and quiet environment.
djmips 1y ago
FWIW - my anecdata - I have been experimenting with noise cancelling headphones at night and I feel like it's improving my sleep.
Noelia- 1y ago
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johncole 1y ago
I haven’t seen it mentioned, but a few extra sleep hacks I have learned: - I use the chili-sleep to control temperature. - I use sleep headphones to drift to sleep to a story. If I wake up ruminating, I turn the headphones back on and it helps break the cycle. - Sleep socks. I sleep with socks on.

152 points by brandonb 1y ago

jabo 1y ago

Wonder if white noise counts as noise from this perspective. Or if it’s mainly unexpected noises that make sleep quality worse.

rybosworld 1y ago
In many animals, hearing gets less sensitive in general when they sleep. I think it's common for people to be surprised by that, but it works that way to maximize sleep function. Dog's are thought to be an exception, because part of their domestication involved selection for the offspring that was more alert (watch dogs). The brain is thought to be hyper sensitive to a certain subset of sounds while sleeping, such as babies crying. White noise is thought to work by drowning out the sounds we are most sensitive to.

foobarian 1y ago

> threshold effect: keeping bedroom sound levels beneath the low-60s dB (roughly the volume of normal conversation) A common source matching this description would be having a TV on in the bedroom.

lm2s 1y ago

Would love to know what kind of noise and sound level was used for this test. Was it a continuous monotonous noise (such as white/pink/brown noise) at a fixed volume? Or was it some random noise that would "pop-up" randomly? Does anyone know? I would imagine that a noise that would randomly "pop-up" would be worse. But would be curious if that's not the case.

brandonb 1y ago
This was ambient noise in the room, as measured by an Apple Watch. So “random,” real world noises that pop up, as opposed to a controlled level of white noise.
cheeseomlit 1y ago
That's also what I was wondering- I sleep with a fan on for the white noise, otherwise I sleep very poorly if at all. I wonder if that sort of 'covers up' the spikes in noise you'd be hearing if the room were otherwise silent
maerF0x0 1y ago
+1 also thought about this. Something like the variability of noise (eg, maybe figure out the 25th percentile dbs across the night, and then count the spikes above that? or maybe count the number of times the slope goes above a certain value indicating sharp rises in volume that would disturb someone?) I also would love to simply see the data based on the average of "N loudest moment(s)" during the sleep. eg: treat the dbs score for that night as the average of the N loudest moments over the night, and plot a series of graphs that show various values of N. (or make it 3d, but i've found many folks are not capable of reading those kinds of graphs)

proee 1y ago

So just use some good quality earplugs?

kogus 1y ago
I personally would not be able to sleep well with earplugs. The feeling of pressure in my ears, combined with the 'pushing' of the earplug if I rolled over to lay on my side would be very uncomfortable.
- ay 1y ago
  Try “3M earplugs yellow” on amazon. They are pretty much fully immersed in the ear (for me), and the insulation is very good. The pressure - yeah it took maybe a few days to get used to, but… The effects for me (living in Brussels city centre, so quite noisy - police, ambulance, sometimes loud tourists past midnight, and a bit of construction at 6am nearby to keep it real :-) ) were very pronounced: From needing 9 hours and feeling groggy in the mornings anyway, to easily going on 7-8, feeling very refreshed and alert each day. A cool side effect was that this superpower works also while traveling - so, I no longer care how noisy the airco is in the hotel room, being next to the lift, or having the window above the lively bar. The only downside with those earplugs that they are good maybe for 3-4 nights and then are too squished to be useful; but the upsides more than make it up for me.
  - modo_mario 1y ago
    It's rare for me to encounter another Belgian on HN but I'll definitely try this. Sleeping roadside till i have my upper floor renovated has been a disaster for my sleep and functioning.
  - rickydroll 1y ago
    I've tried the squishy foam earplugs, and they always fall out. Other suggestions, such as silicone and custom earplugs, are something I'm going to try. Let's see if they help. However, what destroys my sleep is the light from early morning, streetlights, and the neighbor's porch light. Unfortunately, our bedroom faces southeast and features French doors that open onto an east-facing three-season porch, allowing sunlight to stream in. Yeah, I've got curtains everywhere, and I have room-darkening curtains on order. If those don't work, the next step is putting solar panels over my bedroom windows. I figure if I'm going to keep light out, I might as well put it to work some other way. As an experiment, I'm using my car camping mattress in my office, which is the quietest room in the house, and I'm blocking the light from the windows with curtains and cardboard. So far, it's the best sleep I've had in years. There's a bit of domestic disharmony now, but hopefully my partner and I can work out a compromise on light-blocking curtains and keeping them fucking shut.

tobyhinloopen 1y ago

I find this hard to believe this is universally true. I sleep much worse without noise. I use a fan or a speaker to add noise to the room. If I don't, I wake up constantly.

mrob 1y ago
That could be because your added noise is masking other noise with worse effects.
brandonb 1y ago
This is an interesting hypotheses—I think we could test it by looking at intra-night variance in noise. I’ll try to do a follow up!
hugeBirb 1y ago
White noise and wave sounds != A motorcycle with the loudest exhaust imaginable blasting by your house going 100mph at 3am

thm 1y ago

Advertorial w/ PG name-drop.

stavros 1y ago

I've been having issues sleeping lately, and a few days ago, the flat below us started demolishing walls at 8am. This has been going on for a week, and I've never slept better. It sounds like they're demolishing the floor I'm sleeping on, but somehow I can just ignore it and sleep soundly, whereas normally I wake up with the smallest sound, like a dog barking outside my soundproof windows. Very odd.

lurking_swe 1y ago
Maybe record it for an hour or so. Then after the construction stops you can play it back as “soothing” sleep noise. ;)
Kerbonut 1y ago
That's like Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinny where he stays overnight in a cabin and wakes up and freaks out at every little noise, but when he's held in contempt and there's a prison riot going on, he's sleeping like a baby.

aaron695 1y ago

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codyb 1y ago

I can't tell you what sirens outside do to my sleep, but I can tell you they can be very agitating when I'm trying to fall asleep. It's funny though how during the recent heat dome I could barely sleep after sealing the windows cause of just how dang quiet it was! Fickle mistress sleep be.

bumby 1y ago

A couple things: 1) I’d like to see additional measures beyond dB. A 50dB consistent white noise does not bother me (and may even enhance my sleep) but an intermittent off/on sound of the same magnitude has a very different effect 2) what is the accuracy of the consumer metrics compared to medical benchmarks? In other words, how reliable are the sleep measures of consumer devices? Anecdotally, I’ve noticed my watch thinks I’m sleeping sometimes when I watch a movie, and I’ve heard MDs say the metrics aren’t accurate enough to make strong conclusions.

wkat4242 1y ago
Yes i always sleep with a nature sound generator. It's comforting.
thesuitonym 1y ago
It would also be interesting to see the effects of intermittent noise when there is ambient background noise.
willsmith72 1y ago
yes, that would be nice to have. but surely the data we have already would suggest for the benefit of our entire society, especially children (with the link between good sleep and mental development), we should incentivise thicker windows, better sills and other quick wins now
- bumby 1y ago
  To the point above, we should be careful about making strong conclusions if there is a lot of uncertainty in the underlying data.
  - willsmith72 1y ago
    On the contrary, we gain more by making faster decisions than we do by being 100% precise
    - 1y ago

cwmoore 1y ago

Ask an inmate: https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article240396741.html https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article240396741.html EDIT/TLDR: highly effective

jilles 1y ago
There might be some other factors in that situation that prevent one from having a restful night.
- cwmoore 1y ago
  Might be! And some people might not deserve sleep! But "every half hour with pipe-like electronic devices that cause loud clanging noises" seems to be the specific relevant factor. "Stanford University sleep medicine professor who says in a court-filed declaration that Lipsey “is exposed to unrelenting noise that is out of his control that can further (fuel) his insomnia and potentially worsens his health.”

conradev 1y ago

A lot of folks are talking about the “consistency” of a sound (constant white noise vs random sounds) and its volume, but I feel like the nature of the sound matters a lot more. I’ll respond much differently to my bedroom door opening or a voice speaking than I do a bus outside. It reminds me of the anecdote where human researchers rang bells near bears (human sounds) and the bears didn’t care, but if they broke a large bundle of branches (bear sounds), the bears went berserk. I feel like our subconscious is a lot more involved here than we give it credit for.

mmahemoff 1y ago
This is especially true for sleep since we can be pretty good at incorporating external sounds into our dreams. It's been shown in controlled experiments. Seems likely that certain noises are generically easier to integrate into dreams than other noises, which could just cause you to wake up or have your sleep otherwise impaired.
deleted 1y ago
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alexyaseen 1y ago
why don't more hotels seem to understand this? so often I find that even nice hotels have very minimal background noise but poor soundproofing of the doors. so hallway noise disrupts sleep so much
- gowld 1y ago
  Because good materials cost more than "fancy" decorations.
- sandspar 1y ago
  When hotels buy doors, they optimize for things like cost, fireproofing, and weight (so guests and housecleaning can open them easily). Noise cancelling is a nice-to-have, but if you're buying and maintaining ~100 room doors (USA average per hotel), then you have to cut costs somewhere. On top of that, hotel hallway environments tend to be noisy in the first place. We're talking long, narrow hallways with hard walls, plus constant streams of holidaymakers who aren't exactly tiptoeing around.

YossarianFrPrez 1y ago

Some days I joke that there should be a set of Nobel prizes for making machines quieter. Categories could include: air-conditioning units and mini-fridges, construction and landscaping equipment, old university buildings, pump-housings, etc. The quality of life of many would be improved if we had quieter machines. It boggles my mind that a) in many hotel rooms one can hear a good deal of machine noise and neighbors' televisions, and b) that some sort of noise score (as calculated from DB meter measurements) isn't more widely available for things like apartment rentals, conference room bookings, etc.

stronglikedan 1y ago
> making machines quieter It's already possible, just not profitable.
- mrexroad 1y ago
  Exactly. That’s where the other comment about a “noise tax”, or enact fines for exceeding limits, are probably necessary to shift the calculus. Japan is a good case study [1]. If nothing else, it’s fun to look at the charts showing noise reductions—not just in aggregate, but for each contributing input (e.g. engine, intake, exhaust, tires, cooling)—for both passenger vehicles and heavy equipment. Unfortunately, in the US, we have a few obstacles to legislation like this, least of which being public apathy as majority of voters who are not exposed to high sound levels daily. “Japan's primary legislation governing noise regulation is the Environmental Noise Regulation Act, first introduced in 1986 and subsequently amended in 1999. This act sets different noise limits for different times of the day, with the maximum allowable noise level during the day set at 55 decibels and reduced to 45 decibels at night to prevent disturbances to those who are sleeping. Violators of these standards are subject to penalties.” [1] https://www.lios-group.com/news/noise-regulations-in-japan-one-of-the-most-urbanised-countries-in-the-world https://www.lios-group.com/news/noise-regulations-in-japan-o...
willsmith72 1y ago
what about a noise tax? my city has some electric buses and some ancient buses - the difference obviously is absolutely huge, but right now the financial incentives aren't there to upgrade the whole fleet

WhereIsTheTruth 1y ago

I find it fascinating that as a society, we allowed automobiles to pass close to homes I'm glad we are finally going to transition to EVs.. about time

7jjjjjjj 1y ago
At a distance, most of the noise from a car is road noise, not engine noise.
rebeccaskinner 1y ago
Unfortunately even without engine noise people will still install gigantic subwoofers in their car and roll around rattling windows. This has consistently been the biggest problem with my sleep for years, and nothing I've been able to do (including trying to move to different locations) has helped because they are so incredibly loud and prevalent these days.
- anal_reactor 1y ago
  I bought an apartment next to a cycling path that connects the area to the city centre and that was singlehandedly the biggest mistake of my life, because the path also allows mopeds, which have engines orders of magnitude louder than loudest cars. This is insanity. Thankfully, the city is planning to ban fossil-fuel mopeds within five years. They already started phasing them out, you can't register a new one, only old ones are allowed. These are going to be five very long years though. Also, it's a mostly black area, which means people hanging out and talking right in front of the apartment building, even though there's a public park five minutes of walk away. When I was searching for an apartment to buy, there was one on tenth floor, and I regret not buying that one, because I'd be shielded from all the noise on the street. I was fully conviced that I'd be able to stomach living in poorer area and wait for gentrification to happen. I can live with trash on the street. I can live with vandalism. I can live with beggars by the supermarket. I can live with theft and other crime. But the noise. The noise is fucking unbearable. My dream is to wait until the apartment doubles or triples in value, then sell it, and move to rural shithole where nobody lives.

mmahemoff 1y ago

I wish someone could solve the problem at the receiver end, i.e., invent noise-cancelling headphones/earplugs that actually cancel noise as effectively as eye-masks cancel light. In addition to sleep needs, the world has gotten noisier now that people are habitually using speakerphones in public in the most obnoxious ways.

dmoy 1y ago
I mean.... https://westone.com/defendear-sleep https://westone.com/defendear-sleep Gets you some pretty good quiet for sleep. It's not active noise cancelling, but they work pretty well. Anecdotally if you wear a pair of westone solids, and then a pair of earmuffs on top of that, you are basically just hearing through your bones, which can't be avoided (with passive or active).
hn_throw2025 1y ago
I used to use mouldable silicone ear plugs : https://bioears.co.uk/products/bioears-ear-plugs https://bioears.co.uk/products/bioears-ear-plugs Very effective, but eventually they made me just focus on my tinnitus. I now live in a quieter place and use some white noise from a speaker - ocean sounds.
- jks 1y ago
  These are the most comfortable earplugs I've used: https://www.elacin.com/your-perfect-fit/leisure/relax-sleep/ https://www.elacin.com/your-perfect-fit/leisure/relax-sleep/ Currently I use Ozlo Sleepbuds which are not quite as comfortable and a little finicky to operate, but I like the masking noise.

Anechoic 1y ago

FYI, there's been tons of research of the effects of noise on sleep from different sources. There have been studies ranging from in-lab experiments, to in-home experiments with artificial and natural sources. If you're interested, some resources: Institute of Noise Control Engineering Digital library: https://www.inceusa.org/publications/ince-digital-library/ https://www.inceusa.org/publications/ince-digital-library/ (papers older than 10 years old are available free) Federal Interagency Committee on Aviation Noise: https://fican1.wordpress.com/findings/ https://fican1.wordpress.com/findings/ (focuses on aviation noise) Acoustical Society of America Lay Language Papers: https://acoustics.org/lay-language-papers/ https://acoustics.org/lay-language-papers/ (search for "sleep" -- the ASA has a full library of more detailed research but the documents cost money unless you're an ASA member) World Health Organization guidelines on noise - https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/343936/WHO-EURO-2018-3287-43046-60243-eng.pdf?sequence=2 https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/343936/WHO-EURO-... (doesn't get into specifics on research on sleep, but does refer recommended limits to sleep disturbance) NIH has done a bunch of research on sleep disturbance from noise, you would need to search through their library edit (one more): TRB/National Academies https://nap.nationalacademies.org/search/?rpp=20&ft=1&term=noise%20sleep https://nap.nationalacademies.org/search/?rpp=20&ft=1&term=n... A lot of the stuff that posters are asking for have in fact been done, it just takes some digging through the research sites to find them. There's a lot of variation in the data, the hypothesis is that sleep sensitivity varies a lot based on various physical factors (age being a big one).

ChuckMcM 1y ago
Interesting, perhaps age related deafness contributes.
- Ntrails 1y ago
  I'd expect the relationship goes the other way around. Most old people I know sleep lightly comparatively
- schiffern 1y ago
  >age-related deafness Interestingly, there's been some suggestion that hearing loss is not inevitable with age, but is mostly just the accumulation of noise-related hearing loss in a loud industrial society. https://canadianaudiologist.ca/a-new-perspective-on-chronic-conductive-hearing-loss/ https://canadianaudiologist.ca/a-new-perspective-on-chronic-... https://www.icben.org/2017/ICBEN%202017%20Papers/SubjectArea01_Fink_0102_2331.pdf https://www.icben.org/2017/ICBEN%202017%20Papers/SubjectArea... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00660-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00660-3 I think partly the issue is that how we measure noise doesn't match how noise causes injury. Your cochlea acts as a spiral resonant tube, essentially a "physical FFT," concentrating energy at a particular frequency onto a particular location in the spiral. Too much (local!) energy damages the hair cells, causing conductive hearing loss. But because we calculate A-weighted decibels by summing all frequencies and then checking if we're above the injury threshold (vs checking whether we exceed the injury threshold at any frequency), using A-weighted decibels can't accurately determine damaging noise levels. If all the energy is concentrated at Middle A it will cause more damage than spreading the energy out across the spectrum, even if the A-weighted decibels come out equal. It's a somewhat subtle, wrong order-of-operations problem. There's also a separate problem that A-weighting is designed to normalize for perception at various frequencies, not hearing damage. I've tried searching the literature to find out whether this is either 1)wrong, or 2)generally known within the fields of audiology and occupational hygiene, but so far I've come up empty. -- I recall an HN poster long ago saying how they wore earplugs daily to achieve "super hearing." It occurs to me that all they were doing was actually protecting their ears from damage. :-|

Magi604 1y ago

My apartment is along a corridor that is frequented by emergency vehicles, so sirens are frequent during normal sleep hours, and my apartment windows face the sunrise. I've adopted a number of things over the years to combat all of this: - Blackout curtains - Earplugs - White noise maker (just an air purifier but it does the same thing) - 3mg Melatonin

uludag 1y ago

I've been using earplugs practically every night for the past three years and I can't recommend them enough. While the particular kind I use (Mack's ultra soft) don't block out all the noise, there is a wide variety of noises that used to wake me up which don't anymore. If you haven't tried them I would highly recommend giving sleeping with earplugs a shot. It only takes a few days or so to get used to them. In terms of downsides, only once in the past three years did I get some earwax clogged in some part of my ear which was easy to remove with some special spray (went to urgent care). Also, I have a very hard time sleeping without them anymore so I always make sure to have a pair at hand. Also, you may have to experiment with various brands and types as some brands are really uncomfortable and hurt my ear.

octo888 1y ago
3M 1100 work great for me. You can get a box of 200 pairs Unfortunately they changed a bit the past few years to be slightly less comfortable but I still find them the best overall
- Arainach 1y ago
  Foam are significantly less comfortable for side sleeping and block less noise than Silicone (Mack's) which still come in large sets for well under $1/pair.
  - octo888 1y ago
    Ear plugs are highly personal I find. People need to find what works for them. I can't stand wax or silicone earplugs for example. I sleep on my side
  - jagaerglad 1y ago
    I don't know about the 1100 but I have another model (ear classic), just simple foam earplugs, of the same manufacturer. Having gone through many different foam, silicon etc plugs from the pharmacy and grocery shop, the 3M are undeniably the best I've ever had. No pain from the foam expanding bigger than the ear canal (although it's initially bigger), no itching from sweat etc, no pressure on the eardrum when side-sleeping (that tinnitus feeling from some foam earplugs). They are literally perfect, and the noise blocking is the best I've experienced. I don't know what it is but perhaps they have some foam patented that only they use (probably poisonous or something in true evil company fashion though) The only reason I tried them is that I found myself in a situation where my standard silicone earplugs were gone and where somebody gave me a box of hundreds of earplugs they didn't manage to sell at a concert. I was bracing myself for a terrible night of ear pain, but was pleasantly surprised of how superior they were to anything I had tried, still using earplugs from the very same box as my night-to-night noise relief

mmh0000 1y ago

I’ve spent years “fixing” my sleep. Things I recommend: * a sleep tracker. I love AutoSleep - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autosleep-track-sleep-on-watch/id1164801111 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autosleep-track-sleep-on-watch... * Any kind of white noise. I use an air purifier at home, and a little pocket size white noise machine when I travel. * find and eliminate any noises in your home. Computers, fridges, squeaky doors, etc. * find and eliminate any lights. Especially stupid power and status LEDs. Bedroom should be pitch black at night. Electrical tape works well for this. * Blackout curtains * cheap eye mask * Magnesium Glycate supplement * Earplugs- https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0015TBGR6 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0015TBGR6 * And finally, a recent addition that I’ve fallen in love with is sleep ear buds: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT9GBFQ2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT9GBFQ2 Although, I would wait on getting sleep ear buds, Anker just announced a new model with ANC and a similar price.

codybontecou 1y ago
Appreciate the list. How do you eliminate fridge noise (besides replacing the fridge entirely)?
yukIttEft 1y ago
I have a street in front of my bedroom and I'm wondering how well ANC earbuds work in that case. Will it be completely silent or will there still be some kind of whoosh-sound?
- delecti 1y ago
  A large quantity of disposable earplugs is so cheap that I'd recommend you try that before investing time and money into ANC earbuds. My spouse snores loudly, and a $15 container of 50 pairs has lasted more than 2 years, and saved our ability to co-sleep (I was only a couple nights away from moving to our guest room). We're also on a street with a very permissive speed limit, and we're under the approach path of the nearby airport, and it's never a problem. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051U7W32 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051U7W32 I got these, $15 for 50 pairs; the GP comment is $40 for 200 pairs which is a better value but more investment if you wind up dissatisfied

octo888 1y ago

Low frequency noise is the worst. Extremely difficult often impossible to eliminate without a lot of expense. Travels long distances. Absolute nightmare for people sensitive to noise

socalgal2 1y ago

I don't know how to state this well but I find the fact that nearly all new apartment buildings in California are only allowed to be built on busy streets very frustrating. I'm guessing it's part nimby-ism and part zoning but every time I see a new apartment complex it's next to the busiest streets in the city (LA, SF). It's like many things, if you want health you must be rich. If you can't afford a house then F.U. You get a loud apartment with constant traffic noise. I *almost* feel like it should be illegal to build them next to the freeway like Those ones just north of SFO next to the 110: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27 https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27 The ones in downtown LA next to the 110: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16 https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16 The ones north of LAX at Howard Hughes: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6 I don't actually think I think they should be illegal but dang it, I wish there were more options for new apartments. In LA there are lots of older apartment buildings in quiet residential neighborhoods built 50+ years ago. https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6 They are no longer allowed to be built AFAICT.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago
Streets are much quieter at lower speed limits. There is definitely room for improvement here from the traffic engineers.
- gowld 1y ago
  Downtown is very low speed but very noisy.
  - kjkjadksj 1y ago
    Say what you will about the suburbs but the grass and landscaping on each and every property is like noise cancelling foam being applied compared to the hardscaping downtown.
    - 1y ago

emsign 1y ago

I'm using pink noise to suppress my REM phase and get more deep sleep when my body needs extra regeneration at the expense of mental regeneration. Luckily there's none of that random street noise in my neighborhood.

todotask2 1y ago

I have even worse noise in my area — a widespread ground vibration across a few kilometers, like a constant loud 50Hz hum that causes a tingling sensation in my body. You can’t even block it by covering your ears. I've been experiencing this frequently, both thru the night and during the day, for the past five years here in Singapore has affected my sleep rhythm, can't sleep with that noise. I've unemployed for the past 5 years.

octo888 1y ago
Low frequency noise is the worst! Probably a stupid question but do you know anyone else that can hear it? I had a low-frequency version of tinnitus and I spent weeks thinking it was some external noise
- todotask2 1y ago
  My mum hears it too, but the local authorities simply claimed they couldn't hear anything during that brief moment. They’d have to stay overnight to really hear and feel it — inside a room, not just in a public space. It even vibrate my eardrum like I'm sitting on an F16 pilot seat. I don't hear it in other districts. I wish there were an expert or researcher interested in these areas: residential buildings, shops, parks, churches, and schools.
  - lurking_swe 1y ago
    i’d try getting this in front of a journalist or news station. They may be more excited to investigate “weird” claims like this one. Sorry to hear about your situation.
    - todotask2 1y ago
      I tried by emailing to them and got no respond.
  - Anechoic 1y ago
    I wish there were an expert or researcher interested in these areas: residential buildings, shops, parks, churches, and schools. You mean an expert in acoustics related to those areas? There are lots of experts and researchers. Take a look at the Acoustical Society of America, the Institute of Noise Control Engineering, and Council for Accreditation in Occupational Hearing Conservation for starters. Penn State, University of Hartford, Purdue University, Michigan Technological University, University of Nebraska, Morgan State Univeristy, and Brigham Young University (among others) all have strong acoustics programs with research in a bunch of areas.

compumike 1y ago

Interesting! It could be a confounder as well. For example, maybe people who live in dense (loud) urban dwellings also tend to have more day-to-day life stress generally, leading to reduced sleep quality. (Of course, reduced sleep quality could also be a source of more life stress...) Would your userbase be up for a little experiment: adding white/pink/rainfall/etc noise at various volumes? I bet you'd see an inverted U shaped curve, with sleep quality increasing at relatively low volume levels, and then hitting some maximum and decreasing when it gets too loud! (Agree with other comments about looking at intra-night variance in noise level.)

mancerayder 1y ago

Incredibly, the noise insulation between floors and ESPECIALLY walls in both hotels around the world and even expensive, modern apartment buildings in Manhattan is absolutely atrocious. So I end up booking Airbnb's when I travel and renting top floors whenever I can. I find the build quality of new buildings (again, even uber luxury apartment condos) in the U.S. absolutely crap compared to Europe (I'm thinking especially of France and Germany). Over here on HN you have a strong contingent of people who push pro-density, pro-city, and anti-car. But some people (like myself) who suffer from a sensitive sleep are deeply affected and consider moving to the woods away from people just for this problem. I find the 'SLAM' sound of doors (in New York there's a spring loading per building code), the stomp stomp of upstairs, and the bass music of adjacent neighbors to be deeply disruptive from a psychological perspective.

joquarky 1y ago

While in the subject of noise, I'd like some research on the effect of "popcorn" tuned car exhausts on the mental health of people suffering from PTSD or are just generally sensitive.

dariosalvi78 1y ago

The worst is this a "fashion" of modifying vehicles, illegally, to make them sound like airplanes. I live in Sweden and, believe me, it is absolute hell on hearth.

0xjunhao 1y ago

FYI a literature review from a deep research AI ====== The effect of noise on sleep is multifaceted, involving various types of noise exposure, physiological mechanisms, and consequences on sleep quality and health. I. Introduction Environmental and occupational noise refers to unwanted or harmful sounds from sources such as traffic, aircraft, railways, and workplaces. Noise pollution is a significant public health issue due to its widespread prevalence and impact on sleep and overall health. II. Types of Noise Exposure Environmental noise includes road traffic, aircraft, and railway noise. Aircraft noise, for example, has been shown to negatively affect sleep in children, whereas road traffic noise may have less impact on autonomic activity during sleep [Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children]. Occupational noise exposure also contributes to sleep disturbances and has been linked to sleep loss and fragmentation [The effects of occupational noise on sleep]. Intentional masking noise such as white or pink noise is sometimes used as a sleep aid to improve sleep quality in noisy environments [The effects of white noise on sleep]. III. Physiological Mechanisms During sleep, the auditory system continues to process sounds, and noise can lower arousal thresholds, causing awakenings or micro-arousals. Noise exposure activates the autonomic nervous system, increasing heart rate and blood pressure, and stimulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, leading to hormonal and metabolic changes [Environmental noise and sleep disturbances]. IV. Effects on Sleep Architecture Noise exposure reduces total sleep time and sleep efficiency, increases sleep fragmentation, and causes more frequent micro-arousals. It also alters sleep stages by decreasing deep sleep (slow-wave sleep) and REM sleep, which are critical for restorative sleep [Effects of environmental noise on sleep]. V. Health and Daytime Consequences Poor sleep due to noise leads to daytime sleepiness, cognitive impairments, and mood disturbances. Chronic noise-related sleep disruption is associated with increased cardiovascular and metabolic risks, such as hypertension and glucose metabolism disturbances. It also negatively affects quality of life and can contribute to burnout [Environmental Noise and Effects on Sleep], [Effects of personal noise exposure, sleep quality, and burnout]. VI. Vulnerable and Special Populations Children are particularly sensitive to noise, with aircraft noise shown to disrupt their sleep more than road traffic noise. Older adults and individuals with pre-existing sleep disorders are also more vulnerable to noise-induced sleep disturbances [Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children]. VII. Noise as a Sleep Aid Paradoxically, steady background noise such as white or pink noise can improve sleep quality by masking disruptive environmental sounds. Studies have shown that white noise can significantly enhance subjective and objective sleep measures in noisy urban settings. However, potential downsides include hearing damage and psychological dependency on noise for sleep [Noise as a sleep aid: A systematic review], [The effects of white noise on sleep]. VIII. Mitigation and Future Directions Effective strategies to mitigate noise effects on sleep include engineering controls like soundproofing, use of earplugs, and regulatory noise limits. Behavioral interventions and public health policies are also important. Future research is needed to clarify long-term effects, dose-response relationships, and to develop personalized interventions [The Effect of Room Acoustics on the Sleep Quality of Healthy Sleepers]. In summary, noise negatively impacts sleep by disrupting sleep architecture and triggering physiological stress responses, leading to adverse health outcomes. While some forms of noise can aid sleep by masking disturbances, overall noise reduction remains critical for improving sleep quality and health. References Environmental noise and sleep disturbances: A threat to health? Demian Halperin et al. Sleep Science, 2014 Nov 15. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4608916/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4608916/ Poor sleep causes measurable changes on these systems. Experimental studies demonstrated that both sleep restriction and poor quality sleep affect glucose ... Effects of environmental noise on sleep Kenneth I Hume et al. Noise & health, 2012. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23257581/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23257581/ This paper summarizes the findings from the past 3 year's research on the effects of environmental noise on sleep and identifies key future research goals. The Effect of Room Acoustics on the Sleep Quality of Healthy Sleepers Ingo Fietze et al. Noise & Health, 2016 Sep-Oct. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5187651/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5187651/ Noise is one of the factors that can seriously disturb sleep, and sound volume is an important factor in this context. One strategy involves avoiding ... Noise as a sleep aid: A systematic review Samantha M. Riedy et al. Sleep Medicine Reviews, 2021/02/01. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079220301283 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870... ... sleep aid, especially since it may also negatively affect sleep and hearing. ... Suzuki et al. Sleep deepening effect of steady pink noise. J Sound Vib. (1991). Environmental Noise and Effects on Sleep: An Update to the WHO Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis Michael G Smith et al. Environmental Health Perspectives, 2022 Jul 11. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9272916/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9272916/ Jul 11, 2022 ... To what extent have the following outcomes of railway noise occurred in the past 12 months? Railway noise disturbs when falling asleep. Not ... Effects of personal noise exposure, sleep quality, and burnout on quality of life: An online participation cohort study in Taiwan Ta-Chien Chan et al. Science of The Total Environment, 2024/03/10. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969724001190 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972... Mar 10, 2024 ... To our knowledge, this is the first study to explore the pathways through which daily noise exposure, sleep quality, and personal burnout affect ... Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children according to Source https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476937/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476937/ Road traffic noise did not significantly alter sleep or autonomic activity in children, whereas aircraft noise exerted a negative effect on sleep. The effects of occupational noise on sleep: A systematic review Saeid Yazdanirad et al. Sleep Medicine Reviews, 2023/12/01. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079223001028 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870... One of the important effects due to noise exposure is sleep loss/disturbance, which has received less attention. Sleep disturbance is defined as problems with ... The effects of white noise on sleep and duration in individuals living in a high noise environment in New York City Matthew R Ebben et al. Sleep medicine, 2021/7. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34049045/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34049045/ Our data show that white noise significantly improved sleep based on subjective and objective measurements in subjects complaining of difficulty sleeping.

socalgal2 1y ago

I wish they’d make car alarms illegal. afaict they do nothing. no one looks. It does not stop car theft or breakins. all it does ruin everyone’s sleep. Especially in 2025, if you want to know if your car is being whatever triggers an alarm then have it send you a message that only bothers you and not several hundred other people. There is your new startup idea for ycombinator. car alarm app with optional $$$ track down service :p

esseph 1y ago
I promise you there are still plenty of places where if a car alarm goes off, that people are paying attention.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  I promise you there are not. In fact, I'll challenge you to find some data supporting your promise. I can't find any. I find some that says steering wheel locks work. I find some that says stuff that shuts off the car works. But none that finds that alarms do anything. "Highway Loss Data Institute studies show no overall reduction in theft losses for vehicles with alarms" (from 74 million car insurance data) https://web.archive.org/web/20040804022308/http://www.silentmajorityny.org/links/hldi-article.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20040804022308/http://www.silent... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/car-alarms-dont-work-why-so-common/482769/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/car-ala...
  - esseph 1y ago
    It would be the loudest thing around me for 25 miles. One of us would either knock on the door of the place until the owner came out, or somebody would shoot the car until it stopped making noise. A car alarm in my environment would be an anomaly, not the norm.

pedalpete 1y ago

I didn't see a link to the paper, so can only assume they were introducing new noises at randomized decibel levels to study participants. My start-up uses sound to enhance sleep's restorative function. So blankly saying "noise at decibel level x disrupts sleep" is not true. Over the last 10 years, research has shown that precisely timed micro-auditory stimulations increase slow-wave activity, and accompanying biomarkers of health. There are now more than 50 published peer-reviewed papers regarding this phenomenon. We link to some of these on our website https://affectablesleep.com https://affectablesleep.com Environmental noise is different than precise stimulation based noise, but most of us have an adaptation level to environmental noise. I remember when I first moved to Chile having dinner with an Argentinian and an Indian, and the Argentinian said the streets in Santiago were so loud it was important to get an apartment on a higher floor. The Indian guy looked around and was like "what noise"? To him, Santiago was a peaceful and quiet environment.

djmips 1y ago

FWIW - my anecdata - I have been experimenting with noise cancelling headphones at night and I feel like it's improving my sleep.

Noelia- 1y ago

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johncole 1y ago

I haven’t seen it mentioned, but a few extra sleep hacks I have learned: - I use the chili-sleep to control temperature. - I use sleep headphones to drift to sleep to a story. If I wake up ruminating, I turn the headphones back on and it helps break the cycle. - Sleep socks. I sleep with socks on.