3 ms·

I don't think you know the space very well. Go to FRED, it is the largest of many that is a fantastic unbiased dashboard of governmental and societal data for t

I don't think you know the space very well. Go to FRED, it is the largest of many that is a fantastic unbiased dashboard of governmental and societal data for the US. They even have almost the exact data that you would say is useful about CC spending. Here is all of the data that they publish about credit cards[1]. It has a lot more data than just the aggregate data from two of the credit card providers. The people that gather and publish the data are historically pretty unbiased and open about methods. You can go get the raw data and methods. Some of the places that publish them like FRED, are not even under direct political jurisdiction. They are not at all the part of the government that is affected by the data they publish, and being run by a reserve bank puts them at pretty far reach from meddling by DC. You can't stop politicians from using the data they like most, but don't pretend that ALL of the data isn't available in useful format. 1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/tags/series?t=credit+cards https://fred.stlouisfed.org/tags/series?t=credit+cards

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
It's not the data, it's the media narrative. No one cares if there are detailed breakouts of key economic indicators available somewhere obscure [1] if most people get their opinions from the media, and the media are in the propaganda and marketing business, not the truth-to-power business. [1] Not media-quoted or foregrounded for the public.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  That's a goal-post shift. GP were complaining that accurate, fulsome statistics aren't there, when they are. The media narrative is out of the control of the various statistics bodies, and it is up to the informed reader to seek out better sources if the article they are reading has scanty info. For the record though, FRED is frequently cited as a source in reputable mainstream media (I see it in the NYT all the time). Read The Economist some time, that's an international news source that will deeply report on these stats. Can't be helped if people prefer Fox or other garbage as their news diet. You are complaining about media literacy and bad journalism, which is an entirely separate issue from the fact that the data both exists, and is extremely easy to access.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    It feels like both things can be true at once: the raw data is often accessible and methodologically sound (shoutout to FRED, BEA, BLS, etc), and the interpretation or prioritization of metrics by politicians and media can completely skew public understanding. The frustration isn’t about access it is about trust. People want metrics that reflect lived reality and can’t be spun or redefined every election cycle.
    - watwut 1y ago
      Except that mainstream media do use FRED data ... so. It is also possible to try to paint journalists as worst then they are ... that is good for actual quacks that to not like the good data.
      - firesteelrain 1y ago
        I never said journalists don’t use FRED. The issue is which metrics get foregrounded and how they’re framed. The data’s out there, but the signal-to-noise ratio in most news cycles is terrible.
- datavirtue 1y ago
  You are supposed to be an adult and ignore all that biased rhetoric.
- trainerxr50 1y ago
  The irony is that is is a more fundamental problem that both of us are engaged in right now. Why are we wasting our time having this discussion and not just debating the finer points of Wittgenstein? Once basic needs are met humans mostly do things for fun and entertainment. Truth seeking is mostly an after the fact justification for what was fun and entertaining in the moment. Sich meinen, einer regel zu folgen, ist nicht, einer regel folgen.
sillyfluke 1y ago
>being run by a reserve bank puts them at pretty far reach from meddling by DC. Study the path other autocrats blazed for Trump, who is following and mimicing their tactics pretty closely now. Aggressive Fed interference is on his agenda, as can be seen by the way he likes to keep his fights with Powell constantly in the news cycle.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  Well aware. At least the few adults that are left, along with the market, start getting very upset when certain politicians target the fed.
trainerxr50 1y ago
Exactly. It is like when people complain about the inflation rate not reflecting reality but of course haven't bothered to look at the FRED data and how incredibly granular they do go with the data. Really not even understanding that the inflation rate is an index. As if you can go more granular than Producer Price Index by Commodity: Chemicals and Allied Products: Thermoplastic Resins and Plastics Materials https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU0662 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU0662 It is like with GDP and unemployment. These are incredibly hard things to measure at the scale of the US economy. How can a thinking person not understand this is beyond me.
- wjnc 1y ago
  “ How can a thinking person not understand this is beyond me.” Measurement theory is not a subject taught pretty much anywhere? I have a masters in economics and the only reason I have more than an inkling of understanding of these things is via an internship at our nations statistical bureau. You get taught to think With numbers. Thinking About numbers is pretty special! Physics, econometrics, abstract math, statistics - they force you to think About numbers. The rest is thinking With numbers.

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago

It's not the data, it's the media narrative. No one cares if there are detailed breakouts of key economic indicators available somewhere obscure [1] if most people get their opinions from the media, and the media are in the propaganda and marketing business, not the truth-to-power business. [1] Not media-quoted or foregrounded for the public.

dghlsakjg 1y ago
That's a goal-post shift. GP were complaining that accurate, fulsome statistics aren't there, when they are. The media narrative is out of the control of the various statistics bodies, and it is up to the informed reader to seek out better sources if the article they are reading has scanty info. For the record though, FRED is frequently cited as a source in reputable mainstream media (I see it in the NYT all the time). Read The Economist some time, that's an international news source that will deeply report on these stats. Can't be helped if people prefer Fox or other garbage as their news diet. You are complaining about media literacy and bad journalism, which is an entirely separate issue from the fact that the data both exists, and is extremely easy to access.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  It feels like both things can be true at once: the raw data is often accessible and methodologically sound (shoutout to FRED, BEA, BLS, etc), and the interpretation or prioritization of metrics by politicians and media can completely skew public understanding. The frustration isn’t about access it is about trust. People want metrics that reflect lived reality and can’t be spun or redefined every election cycle.
  - watwut 1y ago
    Except that mainstream media do use FRED data ... so. It is also possible to try to paint journalists as worst then they are ... that is good for actual quacks that to not like the good data.
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      I never said journalists don’t use FRED. The issue is which metrics get foregrounded and how they’re framed. The data’s out there, but the signal-to-noise ratio in most news cycles is terrible.
datavirtue 1y ago
You are supposed to be an adult and ignore all that biased rhetoric.
trainerxr50 1y ago
The irony is that is is a more fundamental problem that both of us are engaged in right now. Why are we wasting our time having this discussion and not just debating the finer points of Wittgenstein? Once basic needs are met humans mostly do things for fun and entertainment. Truth seeking is mostly an after the fact justification for what was fun and entertaining in the moment. Sich meinen, einer regel zu folgen, ist nicht, einer regel folgen.

sillyfluke 1y ago

>being run by a reserve bank puts them at pretty far reach from meddling by DC. Study the path other autocrats blazed for Trump, who is following and mimicing their tactics pretty closely now. Aggressive Fed interference is on his agenda, as can be seen by the way he likes to keep his fights with Powell constantly in the news cycle.

dghlsakjg 1y ago
Well aware. At least the few adults that are left, along with the market, start getting very upset when certain politicians target the fed.

trainerxr50 1y ago

Exactly. It is like when people complain about the inflation rate not reflecting reality but of course haven't bothered to look at the FRED data and how incredibly granular they do go with the data. Really not even understanding that the inflation rate is an index. As if you can go more granular than Producer Price Index by Commodity: Chemicals and Allied Products: Thermoplastic Resins and Plastics Materials https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU0662 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU0662 It is like with GDP and unemployment. These are incredibly hard things to measure at the scale of the US economy. How can a thinking person not understand this is beyond me.

wjnc 1y ago
“ How can a thinking person not understand this is beyond me.” Measurement theory is not a subject taught pretty much anywhere? I have a masters in economics and the only reason I have more than an inkling of understanding of these things is via an internship at our nations statistical bureau. You get taught to think With numbers. Thinking About numbers is pretty special! Physics, econometrics, abstract math, statistics - they force you to think About numbers. The rest is thinking With numbers.