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Senators reintroduce App Store bill to rein in 'gatekeeper power'
- walterbell 1y agoLooking forward to more options for detecting compromised iOS devices. We also need an option to stay on Version N-1 stable version of iOS, during the months when Version N is being fixed in public. Otherwise, iOS devices are only secure about 6 months of the year, between March and September, until the cycle of vulnerability begins anew.
- Analemma_ 1y agoYou have that option now? iOS updates aren't forced.
- Waterluvian 1y agoYeah. I have a habit of waiting a very long time to update.
- walterbell 1y agoiOS update to most recent release is always forced during reinstallation. It's not possible to reinstall any older version you were previously running. You will lose access to apps which are not compatible with newer iOS.
- wmf 1y agoYou're an extreeeeeme outlier.
- walterbell 1y agoAfter an iOS device is compromised, is there any option other than reinstall?
- wmf 1y agoI didn't know reinstalling is even possible so I would just throw the device away.
- walterbell 1y agoIt's an Apple option when restoring an iOS device backup on Apple Macbook. Many zero-day security flaws are documented as fixed in Apple updates, actively used to compromise iOS devices.
- LocalH 1y agoIt doesn't even take a Mac. Windows iTunes allows restoring to signed versions of iOS
- LocalH 1y agoToo Android-pilled?
- LocalH 1y agoThat's not a reason to dismiss their use case. It's not that uncommon to have a software issue that requires a restore, which in Apple land is almost always an upgrade unless you just did one
- layer8 1y agoYou don’t receive security updates for older versions when your device supports a newer version.
- LocalH 1y agoI think as devices stop being supported and become obsoleted, it should be possible to install arbitrary iOS versions on them.
- candiddevmike 1y agoStop supporting? Great, release the source and firmware. Should go for all code IMO, games included.
- LocalH 1y agoI just want to be able to install iOS 8 on my iPhone 6 so I can play Rock Band Reloaded without the bugs that come from trying to play it on iOS 10
- doctorpangloss 1y agoApple got away with disobeying the Epic v Apple orders for like 4 years. Something tells me they don’t care too much for laws.
- walterbell 1y agoThree days to implement recent ruling? 2025-04-31, "Judge rules Apple executive lied under oath, makes criminal contempt referral", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43856795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43856795 2025-05-02, "Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43867692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43867692 2025-06-04, "Court denies Apple appeal in Epic Games case, keeping App Store changes in place", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44186891 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44186891
- doctorpangloss 1y agoGo ahead and read the first page of the April 31st, 2025 order that you linked: "For the reasons set forth herein, the Court FINDS Apple in willful violation of this Court’s 2021 Injunction which issued to restrain and prohibit Apple’s anticompetitive conduct and anticompetitive pricing." But this stuff is presented in not the most accessible ways. I tried authoring the tweet-length version. It's up to you, whom to trust or not trust on the Internet!
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Zak 1y agoThe short version is that they were given a lot of flexibility in how they complied with the previous ruling and a lot of time in which to do it. The judge found their implementation did not comply, so she decided how they were to comply with very little flexibility and a short timetable.
- ocdtrekkie 1y agoI am pretty sure the majority of Apple and Google's privileged legal communications equate to "how do we draw this out as long as possible". They know what they're doing isn't legal, but since neither the US or the EU will actually claw back ill-gotten gains it makes sense to continue as long as they can.
- dd36 1y ago[flagged]
- jjtheblunt 1y agoThe article does say the bill does not mention Apple or Google, though the author presumes they are the real topics of the bill.
- ChadNauseam 1y agoInstead of cynically assuming you can't trust anything, you could read the text of the bill and see whether it has loopholes. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised, and get the chance to update your worldview in a positive direction
- SecretDreams 1y agoMost of these bills are not setup for layman to consume. Probably a good application to use an LLM, honestly. It's like reading an EULA agreement.. which I'm sure we all do every time.
- shmerl 1y agoApple should be also fined huge amount for banning competing browser engines on iOS and forced to remove the ban or continue being fined.
- pyman 1y agoHow did Apple get away with all this? They went from having a visionary to a mercenary as CEO.
- candiddevmike 1y agoAllowing other browsers==allowing a potential distribution platform they don't control. There's absolutely a reason they're withholding better PWA experiences on Safari. I'd love to be able to publish TWAs on the app store, there is even web APIs for handling app store payments.
- shmerl 1y agoGood, they shouldn't control (exclusively that is) it which is the whole point of antitrust issue here. Their freak control and browser engines ban is causing anti-competitive damage to the whole Web.
- LocalH 1y agoThat's exactly the reason why they shouldn't be able to control which browser engine an app can use. They should be able to encourage but not require usage of a specific engine
- sneak 1y agoThe fact that Apple is still pretending that lack of sideloading is a consumer protection device is so despicable. There are ways of squaring the circle. There are user experiences that can make even the dumbest user understand that they are taking the security of their device into their own hands. Once they understand that, it isn’t up to Apple to decide for them that the iPhone that the user purchased must remain secure. Users must be permitted to make potentially dangerous choices with their own hardware if they so choose. Mac users can disable system integrity protection and modify the OS or run unsigned apps (though the hoops to do this get more burdensome each OS release, and unsigned apps can’t use the secure enclave, or modern VPN apis, etc - another scumbag move by Apple) and the sky hasn’t fallen over there, nor in Europe where sideloading on iOS is mandated by law (and Apple implemented).
- lokar 1y agoWould it be ok if they said they won’t attempt any service or repair to a device in this mode without a full factory reset?
- grishka 1y agoNo, unless they can prove that the problem was caused by software.
- nickff 1y agoHow would you prove that? It seems like a nearly impossible burden.
- Zak 1y agoIf I want to see if a PC's unusual behavior is caused by hardware or software, I boot it from a USB stick with a known-good OS and some diagnostic tools on it. Phones could be designed so that such a thing is possible, though current phones mostly aren't.
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- ksec 1y agoThere is a point in history where App Store, the way it is operating make sense. It is worth pointing out that Steve Jobs didn't even believe the App Store would make money. Even the 2nd year running he was surprised by the numbers and couldn't make sense of it. But modern society depends on using Apps on Smartphone. Even people might disagree we are at this stage I dont think anyone would disagree it is the trajectory we are heading. The web simply dont offer the same experience and is not an alternative for argument sake. App Store held so much power that Apple should have relinquish its control long ago. At least by 2020. Yet without Steve Jobs, Apple has been left on Autopilot to do what they were doing since Steve Jobs left. Steve Jobs often spoke about the importance of intuition, referring to it as a powerful force that can guide decision-making and innovation, sometimes even more so than intellect. And right now Apple has plenty of intellect, practically zero intuition.
- Zak 1y agoI was surprised by how wrong Jobs got that. Native PC (including Mac) apps had significant usage at the time despite the surge in web apps and were particularly advantageous on a memory and network constrained device. I wouldn't claim to have better general intuition about consumer preferences than Steve Jobs, but I called this one right: when the iPhone launched without third-party apps, I thought that was a crazy decision that wouldn't last once the competition started to catch up.
- gyomu 1y ago> But modern society depends on using Apps on Smartphone It doesn’t have to be that way. Why is my bank’s website close to utterly unusable in a mobile browser (crazy timeouts, popups everywhere, etc) but their app is super smooth? You can argue about the root cause of the issue, but it’s fundamentally not a technology problem.
- EarlKing 1y agoBetter question: Why do I need to use my bank's special snowflake website, or their special snowflake app, when both do the exact same thing that I was doing via a text terminal dialing into Bank of America's HOMEBANKSF service on Tymnet? Why do I have to use their decommoditized solution when there could be a standard solution for banking activities? Yeah, we both know the answer is lock-in... but maybe that's a sign that the gnomes and gnome-adjacent need to be tard-wrangled for the good of society?
- burnt-resistor 1y agoIn other news, the Senate parliamentarian just nixed a bunch of terrible, non-budgetary things from the reconciliation bill.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ethbr1 1y ago>> (Apple PR) We are concerned this EU-style regulation will... Ha. Yeah, I bet you are.