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Developers who opt for tier one will get access to a limited set of mandatory App Store services, including: * App distribution and delivery * Trust and

by rekoil 1y ago

Developers who opt for tier one will get access to a limited set of mandatory App Store services, including: * App distribution and delivery * Trust and safety features * App management [...] Developers who opt for tier two will get access to all services provided by the App Store today. Am I wrong or does it seem like apps in "tier 1" won't even have access to app notification delivery? That's wild...

bigyabai 1y ago
It would make sense to provide an alternative if Apple's priority was the privacy of their users. Unfortunately, we have testimony from American congressmembers that suggests they have ulterior priorities: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-secretly-giving-governments-push-notification-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-...
- 1659447091 1y ago
  That article is a spun version from what appears to be the source article from reuters[0]. Being that they lifted quotes from there and then added a clickbait title by forgetting to add that Google is also compelled by governments to give them the data. The only "ulterior priorities" I could pick up on was that Apple was most likely following the Government restrictions in a more discerning way than Google by not breaking out the push notifications in their aggregated data for request disclosures. Once it was made public by a Senator, Apple updated their policy and started to break it out to its own section. How long Google did this before Apple is not stated and the DOJ declined to comment on the push notification surveillance or whether it had prevented Apple or Google from talking about it. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments...
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    I'm not treating this as a relative comparison, it's a criticism specifically of Apple's service architecture. When you prioritize privacy while refusing transparency, you end up in situations like this very often. That would not be the case if Apple held themselves to their advertised standards for the infrastructure they build.
lapcat 1y ago
Here are the new tiers: https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/reference/store-services-tiers https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/reference... The document says manual updates are included but not automatic updates (which is just a setting in the App Store that I personally disable). Whether there will be update notifications is unclear. Is that what you meant by "app notification delivery", or something else? As an App Store developer myself, I would love to have Tier 1 in the United States, mainly due to no user ratings and reviews. I hate them, and I hate trying to solicit them. As far as I'm concerned, ditching ratings & reviews would be a bonus!
- jmole 1y ago
  "No user ratings and reviews" - that just means you rank last in app store search, right? Apple will do whatever they can to ensure that developers that don't pay will suffer the costs.
  - jajko 1y ago
    I swear there must be somebody properly petty in higher management of apple to keep coming with these childish moves that harm image of the company as some sort of serious reliable manufacturer. I guess to each their own
    - microtonal 1y ago
      Yep, I have been a Mac user since 2007 and iPhone user since 2009. But all the malicious compliance and pettiness has me looking at alternatives (at least for iPhone, since it has good alternatives). I don't recognize the fun, playful Apple of the 00s and early 10s anymore. Its soul has been replaced.
      - montagg 1y ago
        “Cook chose poorly.” https://www.theverge.com/apple/659296/apple-failed-compliance-court-ruling-breakdown https://www.theverge.com/apple/659296/apple-failed-complianc... I think Cook’s time as CEO will be remembered both by enabling massive scale for the most successful consumer product in history—the iPhone—while sacrificing the company’s soul on the alter of efficiency.
saubeidl 1y ago
There's is absolutely 0% chance this will fly. Apple is begging for a fine at this point, with their bad-faith malicious interpretations of the law.
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  You're certain the EU didn't just approve this plan?
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    Our leaders are sometimes spineless, so I unfortunately can't be certain. I am however pretty certain that said spinelessness wouldn't fly with the European public.
    - mslansn 1y ago
      Doesn't really matter since the European commission is not voted by us - we have no choice in the matter.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        The European commission is nominated by our elected governments. It is as democratic as the US presidency, which is also nominated by electors. This is a tired talking point designed to sow doubt in the European project.
        mslansn 1y ago
        Adding layers of indirection makes it less democratic. We should be able to vote for them directly.
        saubeidl 1y ago
        Sure it does. But one layer of indirection is not crazy, that's the way any minister in any country works - or the way the US presidency does. You can't directly elect every single official - it just doesn't scale. It also doesn't really make sense in the commissioner case as different commissioners have different portfolios and which country gets what is subject to negotiation between member states.
msgodel 1y ago
Apple's complaint will likely be that it's a "technical limitation" because they run the only iOS notification gateway. Never mind that Mozilla manages to run one for Firefox completely free to users and devs despite being a comically mismanaged nonprofit and if it were really a problem for them they could allow users to enter the domain name for an alternative one. This issue right here is actually why there have been so few usable open source federated chat apps on the iPhone: the client maintainers must also maintain infrastructure for notifications and are not allowed to delegate this to people hosting their own infrastructure. This is actually the core complaint many people have with how Apple runs their app store and it's very visibly made the internet less usable for everyone.

by rekoil 1y ago

bigyabai 1y ago

It would make sense to provide an alternative if Apple's priority was the privacy of their users. Unfortunately, we have testimony from American congressmembers that suggests they have ulterior priorities: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-secretly-giving-governments-push-notification-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-...

1659447091 1y ago
That article is a spun version from what appears to be the source article from reuters[0]. Being that they lifted quotes from there and then added a clickbait title by forgetting to add that Google is also compelled by governments to give them the data. The only "ulterior priorities" I could pick up on was that Apple was most likely following the Government restrictions in a more discerning way than Google by not breaking out the push notifications in their aggregated data for request disclosures. Once it was made public by a Senator, Apple updated their policy and started to break it out to its own section. How long Google did this before Apple is not stated and the DOJ declined to comment on the push notification surveillance or whether it had prevented Apple or Google from talking about it. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments...
- bigyabai 1y ago
  I'm not treating this as a relative comparison, it's a criticism specifically of Apple's service architecture. When you prioritize privacy while refusing transparency, you end up in situations like this very often. That would not be the case if Apple held themselves to their advertised standards for the infrastructure they build.

lapcat 1y ago

Here are the new tiers: https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/reference/store-services-tiers https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/reference... The document says manual updates are included but not automatic updates (which is just a setting in the App Store that I personally disable). Whether there will be update notifications is unclear. Is that what you meant by "app notification delivery", or something else? As an App Store developer myself, I would love to have Tier 1 in the United States, mainly due to no user ratings and reviews. I hate them, and I hate trying to solicit them. As far as I'm concerned, ditching ratings & reviews would be a bonus!

jmole 1y ago
"No user ratings and reviews" - that just means you rank last in app store search, right? Apple will do whatever they can to ensure that developers that don't pay will suffer the costs.
- jajko 1y ago
  I swear there must be somebody properly petty in higher management of apple to keep coming with these childish moves that harm image of the company as some sort of serious reliable manufacturer. I guess to each their own
  - microtonal 1y ago
    Yep, I have been a Mac user since 2007 and iPhone user since 2009. But all the malicious compliance and pettiness has me looking at alternatives (at least for iPhone, since it has good alternatives). I don't recognize the fun, playful Apple of the 00s and early 10s anymore. Its soul has been replaced.
    - montagg 1y ago
      “Cook chose poorly.” https://www.theverge.com/apple/659296/apple-failed-compliance-court-ruling-breakdown https://www.theverge.com/apple/659296/apple-failed-complianc... I think Cook’s time as CEO will be remembered both by enabling massive scale for the most successful consumer product in history—the iPhone—while sacrificing the company’s soul on the alter of efficiency.

saubeidl 1y ago

There's is absolutely 0% chance this will fly. Apple is begging for a fine at this point, with their bad-faith malicious interpretations of the law.

gjsman-1000 1y ago
You're certain the EU didn't just approve this plan?
- saubeidl 1y ago
  Our leaders are sometimes spineless, so I unfortunately can't be certain. I am however pretty certain that said spinelessness wouldn't fly with the European public.
  - mslansn 1y ago
    Doesn't really matter since the European commission is not voted by us - we have no choice in the matter.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      The European commission is nominated by our elected governments. It is as democratic as the US presidency, which is also nominated by electors. This is a tired talking point designed to sow doubt in the European project.
      - mslansn 1y ago
        Adding layers of indirection makes it less democratic. We should be able to vote for them directly.
        saubeidl 1y ago
        Sure it does. But one layer of indirection is not crazy, that's the way any minister in any country works - or the way the US presidency does. You can't directly elect every single official - it just doesn't scale. It also doesn't really make sense in the commissioner case as different commissioners have different portfolios and which country gets what is subject to negotiation between member states.

msgodel 1y ago

Apple's complaint will likely be that it's a "technical limitation" because they run the only iOS notification gateway. Never mind that Mozilla manages to run one for Firefox completely free to users and devs despite being a comically mismanaged nonprofit and if it were really a problem for them they could allow users to enter the domain name for an alternative one. This issue right here is actually why there have been so few usable open source federated chat apps on the iPhone: the client maintainers must also maintain infrastructure for notifications and are not allowed to delegate this to people hosting their own infrastructure. This is actually the core complaint many people have with how Apple runs their app store and it's very visibly made the internet less usable for everyone.