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This is naive, this won't hurt much the big guys. It will only hurt small startups trying to enter the market. Samsung, Google and Apple can afford this fight.

This is naive, this won't hurt much the big guys. It will only hurt small startups trying to enter the market. Samsung, Google and Apple can afford this fight. Google already paid over $10b for motorola and is already using that to sue Apple. They'll keep doing that until Apple is cornered to cross license its patents. Just like Apple and Microsoft did. Eventually, Apple, Google and Samsung will have cross licensed patents and will stop suing each other. Life will go on. But small startups who can't afford the dozens of billions of dollars these companies are spending to keep Apple off. Those are the ones who will be hurt. Next time an innovative startups tries to disrupt anything Apple is doing. They'll be put out of business because they use pinch to zoom. And this trial has set precedence in Apple's favor. This result is terrible for any small app developer. You should be worried about them, not Apple or Google.

herval 14y ago
It could hurt some of the big guys. Whoever gets sales blocked in their biggest markets could suffer big time (or even go out of business)... That "Apple is the bogey-man and they'll eat anyone that does pinch and zoom" argument is turning into a hollow fallacy. It's not just Apple and they won't sue everyone - it's an all-out war against very specific players (Google, Apple, Samsung and a couple others) that was even announced by Jobs before it happened. Not like they're moving entirely to the business of "patent trolling the world". "Innovative startups that try to disrupt anything" will be safe, IMHO... (except, of course, if "disrupting anything" means blatantly copying everything, from hardware design to icons...)
- forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
  " First they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." I remember the days in witch patenting software or business methods was unthinkable, but now it is the "New normal". It was hard to believe at the time but is happening now.
- luriel 14y ago
  > "Innovative startups that try to disrupt anything" will be safe, IMHO... And you expect people to invest in business in the hopes that your "Humble Opinion" holds true? I'm sure most startups are safe from being sued by Apple... as long as they don't become a threat to their business. And of course, no startup is safe from IV and other patent trolls that are feeding this patent insanity.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - lttlrck 14y ago
    They are more likely to get bought...
- jim_kaiser 14y ago
  Thank you for posting that. I was beginning to doubt my sanity with the sheer amount of melodramatic comments being posted on HN the last few days.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
Thank you. This has been my main worry with this situation. MPEG LA been very successful preventing competition in the video space because, to quote Steve Jobs "all video codecs are covered by patents". Microsoft has tried to scare Linux startups by claiming it infringes on their patents. Honeywell claims to own smart thermostats and is suing to secure its position. I don't want a world where after the first 5-10 years of an industry no new players can enter because the entrenched companies own it legally. Patents as they exist today don't translate to the fast iterative software world. We need to restrict patents to 2 or 3 years. Give the innovator a runway, first-mover advantage. Owning a scroll animation for 20 years is insane.
- dlitz 14y ago
  This (from the EFF) might interest you: https://defendinnovation.org/ https://defendinnovation.org/
forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
This is the big deal. If you use Apple App Store you accept in the Eula that Apple could use any of your ideas or patents without compensation. But they could tell you to pay more to them if you use the bouncing effect in a graph, something I was doing five years ago. It is true that Samsumg stole a lot of Apple's design but also true that Apple did the same with Google Earth, gmail design, dropbox, OLPC sandboxing and process interruption. Good designers are always learning from others.

herval 14y ago

It could hurt some of the big guys. Whoever gets sales blocked in their biggest markets could suffer big time (or even go out of business)... That "Apple is the bogey-man and they'll eat anyone that does pinch and zoom" argument is turning into a hollow fallacy. It's not just Apple and they won't sue everyone - it's an all-out war against very specific players (Google, Apple, Samsung and a couple others) that was even announced by Jobs before it happened. Not like they're moving entirely to the business of "patent trolling the world". "Innovative startups that try to disrupt anything" will be safe, IMHO... (except, of course, if "disrupting anything" means blatantly copying everything, from hardware design to icons...)

forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
" First they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." I remember the days in witch patenting software or business methods was unthinkable, but now it is the "New normal". It was hard to believe at the time but is happening now.
luriel 14y ago
> "Innovative startups that try to disrupt anything" will be safe, IMHO... And you expect people to invest in business in the hopes that your "Humble Opinion" holds true? I'm sure most startups are safe from being sued by Apple... as long as they don't become a threat to their business. And of course, no startup is safe from IV and other patent trolls that are feeding this patent insanity.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- lttlrck 14y ago
  They are more likely to get bought...
jim_kaiser 14y ago
Thank you for posting that. I was beginning to doubt my sanity with the sheer amount of melodramatic comments being posted on HN the last few days.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

Thank you. This has been my main worry with this situation. MPEG LA been very successful preventing competition in the video space because, to quote Steve Jobs "all video codecs are covered by patents". Microsoft has tried to scare Linux startups by claiming it infringes on their patents. Honeywell claims to own smart thermostats and is suing to secure its position. I don't want a world where after the first 5-10 years of an industry no new players can enter because the entrenched companies own it legally. Patents as they exist today don't translate to the fast iterative software world. We need to restrict patents to 2 or 3 years. Give the innovator a runway, first-mover advantage. Owning a scroll animation for 20 years is insane.

dlitz 14y ago
This (from the EFF) might interest you: https://defendinnovation.org/ https://defendinnovation.org/

forgottenpaswrd 14y ago

This is the big deal. If you use Apple App Store you accept in the Eula that Apple could use any of your ideas or patents without compensation. But they could tell you to pay more to them if you use the bouncing effect in a graph, something I was doing five years ago. It is true that Samsumg stole a lot of Apple's design but also true that Apple did the same with Google Earth, gmail design, dropbox, OLPC sandboxing and process interruption. Good designers are always learning from others.