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There is a simple way to solve this. Ship the phones without an OS. Then consumers would have the choice of installing Android, Windows, Symbian, or what have

by derekp7 14y ago

There is a simple way to solve this. Ship the phones without an OS. Then consumers would have the choice of installing Android, Windows, Symbian, or what have you. Ideally the OS would boot from a micro SD card, or at least installed from one.

ForrestN 14y ago
There is no way the average consumer would prefer this. The experience of using technology is rightfully becoming less and less technical. Making everyone have to insert physical memory to install an operating system when they buy a phone would be a huge step backwards.
- barkingcat 14y ago
  Why would that be a problem? End users already deal with sim cards on a regular basis. With the iphones, end users need to mentally deal with "microSims" vs full size sims used in other phones. When you sign up for an account, you get 2 chips. One is a sim card for your telephone account, and the other is a microsd card with the OS of choice.
  - ForrestN 14y ago
    Most phone users never see their sim card. It's installed for them, and they never have occasion to take it out. Having something removable that's put in by the provider, as phone sims usually are, could be fine, but it's not so different from how things are now. The number of people who will want to switch OS on the same phone is probably quite small. I'd bet most people don't even think about the existence of an OS. The software is just part of the thing they bought.
    - jusuchin 14y ago
      I can attest to your last line with my wife- when I talk of the OS on her and my Android it is way over her head. The concept to non-technical users is unfortunately something to be taken care of ahead of time.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      > Most phone users never see their sim card. That's a very US-centric statement. In Europe, and other places where border crossings are a daily occurrence, switching SIM cards is a part of life if one wants to avoid huge roaming fees. There's no reason Americans couldn't learn to deal with the same sort of thing. Moreover, in Europe and other places, contracts are not common and phones can be used with any carrier, so people buy their phones from electronics stores, just like a PC, and then buy a SIM card from a cellular company, then put the SIM card in themselves.
      - polyfractal 14y ago
        Just because something is required does not make it better. I doubt many Europeans would complain if they didn't have to switch SIM cards at every border.
        w1ntermute 14y ago
        I'm not saying it's better. I'm saying that it's less painful than many Americans believe, and that if installing the OS yourself with a microSD card became necessary in order to work around the patent system, then it could very well become a reality.
      - ForrestN 14y ago
        I don't think border crossings are really a daily occurrence for most in Europe. More common than in the US? Sure. But still not anything like a majority of users do this often, and I'm sure almost none of them are happy with having to do so.
        SoftwareMaven 14y ago
        Daily is obviously a bit of an overstatement, but Europeans are far more likely to leave their country on business and/or holiday than those of us in the US are. As a result, there is a general understanding that you can make your mobile use much less expensive by swapping sim cards. A knowledge that doesn't exist in the US (which I imagine mobile providers are happy about).
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    Consumers don't want to do this on desktop systems (how many people ever change OS from whatever their hardware came with? 2%? 4%?). Imagine dealing with hardware drivers, etc on your mobile device, plus the risk of bricking it if you try to flash the wrong build.
herval 14y ago
That's a great idea! That way you'd have the worst of possibilities: software upgrade hell all around ("company X is not upgrading the OS Y on devices Z and W anymore"), hyper-confused buyers (most consumers can't even insert a sim-card without help, let alone pick an OS) and an all-around tendency to nightmarish support experiences ("we don't fix X phones if you install Y on them!") That would be a huge step back from a consumer perspective, IMHO. The "mobile revolution" is in full effect because the devices have got SIMPLER, not "more open". But I'm sure Stallman and others of his kind would LOVE it... edit: removed "neckbeards" reference that could sound offensive to more zealous uber-nerds.
- anatoli 14y ago
  While most of your argument is solid, there's no need to bring the level of discussion down to Reddit standards by using terms like "neckbeards". Your last sentence overshadows an otherwise good comment.
  - herval 14y ago
    I'm really sorry, mentioning Stallman always brings out the worst in me...
alphadogg 14y ago
Let's acknowledge that Samsung "copied" Apple's trade dress, even though no compelling evidence was brought to court. How does your idea solve the issue that Apple is: a) licensing patents that are overly broad and, quite frankly, frivolous b) creating an artificial financial advantage for their OS?
at-fates-hands 14y ago
Although a great idea to foster more competition, it has two fatal flaws. One, now way Apple lets someone install anything but IOS. And two, it would burden the carriers beyond belief to support their customers doing this.

by derekp7 14y ago

ForrestN 14y ago

There is no way the average consumer would prefer this. The experience of using technology is rightfully becoming less and less technical. Making everyone have to insert physical memory to install an operating system when they buy a phone would be a huge step backwards.

barkingcat 14y ago
Why would that be a problem? End users already deal with sim cards on a regular basis. With the iphones, end users need to mentally deal with "microSims" vs full size sims used in other phones. When you sign up for an account, you get 2 chips. One is a sim card for your telephone account, and the other is a microsd card with the OS of choice.
- ForrestN 14y ago
  Most phone users never see their sim card. It's installed for them, and they never have occasion to take it out. Having something removable that's put in by the provider, as phone sims usually are, could be fine, but it's not so different from how things are now. The number of people who will want to switch OS on the same phone is probably quite small. I'd bet most people don't even think about the existence of an OS. The software is just part of the thing they bought.
  - jusuchin 14y ago
    I can attest to your last line with my wife- when I talk of the OS on her and my Android it is way over her head. The concept to non-technical users is unfortunately something to be taken care of ahead of time.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > Most phone users never see their sim card. That's a very US-centric statement. In Europe, and other places where border crossings are a daily occurrence, switching SIM cards is a part of life if one wants to avoid huge roaming fees. There's no reason Americans couldn't learn to deal with the same sort of thing. Moreover, in Europe and other places, contracts are not common and phones can be used with any carrier, so people buy their phones from electronics stores, just like a PC, and then buy a SIM card from a cellular company, then put the SIM card in themselves.
    - polyfractal 14y ago
      Just because something is required does not make it better. I doubt many Europeans would complain if they didn't have to switch SIM cards at every border.
      - w1ntermute 14y ago
        I'm not saying it's better. I'm saying that it's less painful than many Americans believe, and that if installing the OS yourself with a microSD card became necessary in order to work around the patent system, then it could very well become a reality.
    - ForrestN 14y ago
      I don't think border crossings are really a daily occurrence for most in Europe. More common than in the US? Sure. But still not anything like a majority of users do this often, and I'm sure almost none of them are happy with having to do so.
      - SoftwareMaven 14y ago
        Daily is obviously a bit of an overstatement, but Europeans are far more likely to leave their country on business and/or holiday than those of us in the US are. As a result, there is a general understanding that you can make your mobile use much less expensive by swapping sim cards. A knowledge that doesn't exist in the US (which I imagine mobile providers are happy about).
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  Consumers don't want to do this on desktop systems (how many people ever change OS from whatever their hardware came with? 2%? 4%?). Imagine dealing with hardware drivers, etc on your mobile device, plus the risk of bricking it if you try to flash the wrong build.

herval 14y ago

That's a great idea! That way you'd have the worst of possibilities: software upgrade hell all around ("company X is not upgrading the OS Y on devices Z and W anymore"), hyper-confused buyers (most consumers can't even insert a sim-card without help, let alone pick an OS) and an all-around tendency to nightmarish support experiences ("we don't fix X phones if you install Y on them!") That would be a huge step back from a consumer perspective, IMHO. The "mobile revolution" is in full effect because the devices have got SIMPLER, not "more open". But I'm sure Stallman and others of his kind would LOVE it... edit: removed "neckbeards" reference that could sound offensive to more zealous uber-nerds.

anatoli 14y ago
While most of your argument is solid, there's no need to bring the level of discussion down to Reddit standards by using terms like "neckbeards". Your last sentence overshadows an otherwise good comment.
- herval 14y ago
  I'm really sorry, mentioning Stallman always brings out the worst in me...

alphadogg 14y ago

Let's acknowledge that Samsung "copied" Apple's trade dress, even though no compelling evidence was brought to court. How does your idea solve the issue that Apple is: a) licensing patents that are overly broad and, quite frankly, frivolous b) creating an artificial financial advantage for their OS?

at-fates-hands 14y ago

Although a great idea to foster more competition, it has two fatal flaws. One, now way Apple lets someone install anything but IOS. And two, it would burden the carriers beyond belief to support their customers doing this.