6 ms·

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer

by tomkin 14y ago

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immediately, Microsoft (Xbox) and Sony (PlayStation) criticized the Wii's motion controls – deeming them "childish" and "not what gamers want". Today, we know how that story played out. We have PS3 Move and Xbox Kinect. At the time, I had hoped and dreamed that Nintendo would sue and strike back at Sony and Microsoft (not sure if they had the grounds to, mind you). I didn't want Microsoft and Sony to benefit from Nintendo's genius, especially after they essentially deemed motion control as a ludicrous novelty. Today, Microsoft Kinect is making all sorts of cool innovations possible – not Nintendo. But in 2009, I would have been happy to hear that Microsoft would have no right to create Kinect. What a lousy outcome that would have been. Kinect, as a technology, is a benefit to a collective of people – and I was a dink to believe another outcome would have been better. Chalk it up to being a Nintendo fanboy. Today I'd be incredibly angry if Nintendo had the power to overturn, punish or fracture the Kinect technology. And watching Apple fanboys defend a system that essentially holds us all back is incredibly painful to watch. Apple has created a contemporary masterpiece and it is now the baseline for which all better technology evolves. What happens if you get your way and no one can build in the direction that is proven to work? Stagnation. Thanks for that.

flatline3 14y ago
Microsoft and Sony didn't copy Nintendo outright. Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own.
- tomkin 14y ago
  > Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own. Right. So the guy who invented the cell phone shouldn't have "copied" the guy who invented the cordless phone. Oh, and the guy who invented the touch screen phone shouldn't be able to make it because the guy who invented the cell phone (which can't exist because of the guy who made the cordless phone says "No") doesn't want someone to make a touchscreen phone. That's stagnation and that's what you're promoting here. You're just splitting hairs by narrowing the focus to rounded corners, # of buttons, etc. Truth be told, there are no original inventions here. Apple's products are evolutions of previous hardware created by others – let's not forget that.
  - flatline3 14y ago
    Samsung didn't make just any phone, they copied the iPhone. Microsoft at least managed to try something completely different with Windows Phone, and I think it's a hell of a lot more innovative than what Samsung did.
    - tomkin 14y ago
      Explain, in detail, how they copied the iPhone? They look similar, but so do many of the other smartphones out there. When you say they copied the iPhone, I expect to see pretty much an exact copy. If you want to jump outside of the Apple fanboy camp for a second and look around an electronic store – you'll see all kinds of electronics that are almost 100% the same as the leading competitor. Laptops, TVs, MP3 Players, Washers & Dryers, Fridge, Stove – you name it. Then take a stroll down the Entertainment isle and point out an original movie.
TylerE 14y ago
> Today, we know how that story played out. We have PS3 Move and Xbox Kinect Neither of which has really taken off for gaming. The Wii wasn't really a success either. Sure, they sold a lot of consoles, but the console is sold at - at best - break even (and only there after 3-4 years on the market). All the money is in the game licensing (Paid per copy from the developer to the console maker). Wii owners just don't buy that many games - I remember a study that pegged it at ~half what a typical Xbox owner bought.
- tomkin 14y ago
  > Neither of which has really taken off for gaming. I don't know about that. Last I checked, Kinect was doing well. In fact Kinect Adventures is #1 [1] > The Wii wasn't really a success either. Nintendo, until most recently, was the only console manufacturer to actually profit. [1] http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/ http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/
  - TylerE 14y ago
    Nintendo lost almost a billion dollars last year. Kinect Adventures was a pack-in game, so that doesn't really count. So far, there have been only 7 Kinect-required titles in 2012, and except for 1, all are either movie tie-ins or rhythm games. The one exception is Steel Battalion, which managed a whopping 90,000 sales, and a 35/100 Metacritic score. In fact, only 2 Kinect titles have even managed to break an 80 on Metacritic, both music games.
    - tomkin 14y ago
      > Nintendo lost almost a billion dollars last year. Its first loss since inception in 1889. Not bad for a company that didn't have any successful consoles. > Kinect Adventures was a pack-in game, so that doesn't really count. It does count. For 2 reasons: 1) you got Kinect Adventures because you bought Kinect - which is more money than any single game, and 2) if you decided to buy the Xbox with Kinect, you paid more – and seemed to be okay with it. Not exactly a complete failure. > In fact, only 2 Kinect titles have even managed to break an 80 on Metacritic, both music games. You're getting outside of the original point – Kinect is a great, inexpensive technology that is being used in all kinds of applications (i.e. interactive displays, teaching, robotics, etc.).
clarky07 14y ago
I'm not sure how you can remotely compare kinect to wii. Move sure, but kinect isn't even close.
- tomkin 14y ago
  In terms of technology, they are vastly different. In the sense of discovery, market trials and R&D - the Kinect technology is an evolution of the Wii. If Wii did not introduce motion controls, Kinect would not be available. Period. I can validate this claim by the many quotes Microsoft (J Allard, et al.) spewed to the press about what they thought about motion control in video games at the time. This could have easily been Nintendo's argument had they attempted to derail Kinect.
  - clarky07 14y ago
    I'm sorry but I think that's absurd. That's like suggesting Samsung had a problem with this trial because it made a phone. It's not that they made a phone, it's that they made a phone that stole the look, feel, and function of the iPhone. The kinect is a motion gaming device, but that is where the similarities to wii end. That's like suggesting the PS3 infringed on the xbox because it's also a console.

by tomkin 14y ago

flatline3 14y ago

Microsoft and Sony didn't copy Nintendo outright. Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own.

tomkin 14y ago
> Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own. Right. So the guy who invented the cell phone shouldn't have "copied" the guy who invented the cordless phone. Oh, and the guy who invented the touch screen phone shouldn't be able to make it because the guy who invented the cell phone (which can't exist because of the guy who made the cordless phone says "No") doesn't want someone to make a touchscreen phone. That's stagnation and that's what you're promoting here. You're just splitting hairs by narrowing the focus to rounded corners, # of buttons, etc. Truth be told, there are no original inventions here. Apple's products are evolutions of previous hardware created by others – let's not forget that.
- flatline3 14y ago
  Samsung didn't make just any phone, they copied the iPhone. Microsoft at least managed to try something completely different with Windows Phone, and I think it's a hell of a lot more innovative than what Samsung did.
  - tomkin 14y ago
    Explain, in detail, how they copied the iPhone? They look similar, but so do many of the other smartphones out there. When you say they copied the iPhone, I expect to see pretty much an exact copy. If you want to jump outside of the Apple fanboy camp for a second and look around an electronic store – you'll see all kinds of electronics that are almost 100% the same as the leading competitor. Laptops, TVs, MP3 Players, Washers & Dryers, Fridge, Stove – you name it. Then take a stroll down the Entertainment isle and point out an original movie.

TylerE 14y ago

> Today, we know how that story played out. We have PS3 Move and Xbox Kinect Neither of which has really taken off for gaming. The Wii wasn't really a success either. Sure, they sold a lot of consoles, but the console is sold at - at best - break even (and only there after 3-4 years on the market). All the money is in the game licensing (Paid per copy from the developer to the console maker). Wii owners just don't buy that many games - I remember a study that pegged it at ~half what a typical Xbox owner bought.

tomkin 14y ago
> Neither of which has really taken off for gaming. I don't know about that. Last I checked, Kinect was doing well. In fact Kinect Adventures is #1 [1] > The Wii wasn't really a success either. Nintendo, until most recently, was the only console manufacturer to actually profit. [1] http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/ http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/
- TylerE 14y ago
  Nintendo lost almost a billion dollars last year. Kinect Adventures was a pack-in game, so that doesn't really count. So far, there have been only 7 Kinect-required titles in 2012, and except for 1, all are either movie tie-ins or rhythm games. The one exception is Steel Battalion, which managed a whopping 90,000 sales, and a 35/100 Metacritic score. In fact, only 2 Kinect titles have even managed to break an 80 on Metacritic, both music games.
  - tomkin 14y ago
    > Nintendo lost almost a billion dollars last year. Its first loss since inception in 1889. Not bad for a company that didn't have any successful consoles. > Kinect Adventures was a pack-in game, so that doesn't really count. It does count. For 2 reasons: 1) you got Kinect Adventures because you bought Kinect - which is more money than any single game, and 2) if you decided to buy the Xbox with Kinect, you paid more – and seemed to be okay with it. Not exactly a complete failure. > In fact, only 2 Kinect titles have even managed to break an 80 on Metacritic, both music games. You're getting outside of the original point – Kinect is a great, inexpensive technology that is being used in all kinds of applications (i.e. interactive displays, teaching, robotics, etc.).

clarky07 14y ago

I'm not sure how you can remotely compare kinect to wii. Move sure, but kinect isn't even close.

tomkin 14y ago
In terms of technology, they are vastly different. In the sense of discovery, market trials and R&D - the Kinect technology is an evolution of the Wii. If Wii did not introduce motion controls, Kinect would not be available. Period. I can validate this claim by the many quotes Microsoft (J Allard, et al.) spewed to the press about what they thought about motion control in video games at the time. This could have easily been Nintendo's argument had they attempted to derail Kinect.
- clarky07 14y ago
  I'm sorry but I think that's absurd. That's like suggesting Samsung had a problem with this trial because it made a phone. It's not that they made a phone, it's that they made a phone that stole the look, feel, and function of the iPhone. The kinect is a motion gaming device, but that is where the similarities to wii end. That's like suggesting the PS3 infringed on the xbox because it's also a console.