4 ms·

This would be a good theory if it was supported at all by data. There has been a decrease but if you squint it's a flat line. The best you can really say is tha

by Spivak 1y ago

This would be a good theory if it was supported at all by data. There has been a decrease but if you squint it's a flat line. The best you can really say is that the availability of pornography is neutral.

leptons 1y ago
I have seen the data that suggests strongly that pornography lowers rapes. You've put up no data to refute that, so until you do I will continue believing the data I saw. If you do put up some actual data to support your claims (instead of just saying "nuh uhh"), I'll review it and then provide my own.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  Can you share that data
  - leptons 1y ago
    There are numerous articles all over the internet both supporting my claim, as well as negating it, depending on the agenda of the source - there are many people that are morally opposed to porn that would want my claim to be false (and they would still want to ban porn even if that increases rape). Here's some articles that support: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of-smut/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101130111326.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101130111326.h... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601/evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601... The data I saw, probably about 20 years ago... https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d6f248400fd5308b6d5d0c76e320fbc2 https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d6f248400fd5308b6d5d0... I can't verify the source since this data is 20 years old and I can't remember where it came from, but at the time it seemed like a good enough source, and this was before "truth" lost all meaning in the age of the conservative-bent "my feelings are as good as your facts" world we currently live in.
    - jrflowers 1y ago
      The rate of homicides and other violent crime have also declined significantly over the same period, so unless you contend that pornography also caused that, the data shows that it does not increase the rate of rape. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-1990-vs-2020 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-1990-vs-202...
      - leptons 1y ago
        Nice try moving goalposts, but the data I showed correlates reduction in RAPE with availability of porn, nothing more, nothing less. You can also say that people dying in car accidents reduced during the same time, and seatbelt laws enacted during that time would be the cause. Nothing you've provided disproves that access to porn has no effect on rape. You've only moved goalposts. But sure, let's ban all porn and watch the rape cases start increasing - I'm sure that's the best way forward. /s
        jrflowers 1y ago
        >Nice try moving goalposts Uh, yep? I absolutely did that. Your goalposts were in a crazy place. If your goalposts are “rape has to be a special type of violent crime even though rapists frequently (kind of by definition) commit other violent crimes” then yes, I moved them to where pretty much everyone else has them: among other heinous, violent crimes that share the same downward trend over the same period of time. >the data I showed correlates reduction in RAPE with availability of porn I could also draw a graph of rapes going down from 1990 and mp3 usage going up, would that indicate that there is a causal relationship between the two? >nothing more, nothing less. That is factually untrue. I showed you data of another correlation. That would be the more or less. Unless the porn and rape graph is meaningful but the rape and murder graph is not? Or the rape and assault graph? Only porn has a meaningful correlation to rape? If your assertion is that rape does not correlate with other violent crime then the onus is on you to provide data and explain why. Also I’m not anti-porn at all. I think it’s great and consenting adults should be able to watch other consenting adults do whatever. But I have never seen a worse argument for it than “porn line go up rape line go down down therefore causality”. It is a fantastical and indefensible assertion based on anecdotes at best. It is basically what I would come up with if my specific goal was to not be taken seriously.

by Spivak 1y ago

leptons 1y ago

I have seen the data that suggests strongly that pornography lowers rapes. You've put up no data to refute that, so until you do I will continue believing the data I saw. If you do put up some actual data to support your claims (instead of just saying "nuh uhh"), I'll review it and then provide my own.

jrflowers 1y ago
Can you share that data
- leptons 1y ago
  There are numerous articles all over the internet both supporting my claim, as well as negating it, depending on the agenda of the source - there are many people that are morally opposed to porn that would want my claim to be false (and they would still want to ban porn even if that increases rape). Here's some articles that support: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of-smut/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101130111326.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101130111326.h... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601/evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601... The data I saw, probably about 20 years ago... https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d6f248400fd5308b6d5d0c76e320fbc2 https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d6f248400fd5308b6d5d0... I can't verify the source since this data is 20 years old and I can't remember where it came from, but at the time it seemed like a good enough source, and this was before "truth" lost all meaning in the age of the conservative-bent "my feelings are as good as your facts" world we currently live in.
  - jrflowers 1y ago
    The rate of homicides and other violent crime have also declined significantly over the same period, so unless you contend that pornography also caused that, the data shows that it does not increase the rate of rape. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-1990-vs-2020 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-1990-vs-202...
    - leptons 1y ago
      Nice try moving goalposts, but the data I showed correlates reduction in RAPE with availability of porn, nothing more, nothing less. You can also say that people dying in car accidents reduced during the same time, and seatbelt laws enacted during that time would be the cause. Nothing you've provided disproves that access to porn has no effect on rape. You've only moved goalposts. But sure, let's ban all porn and watch the rape cases start increasing - I'm sure that's the best way forward. /s
      - jrflowers 1y ago
        >Nice try moving goalposts Uh, yep? I absolutely did that. Your goalposts were in a crazy place. If your goalposts are “rape has to be a special type of violent crime even though rapists frequently (kind of by definition) commit other violent crimes” then yes, I moved them to where pretty much everyone else has them: among other heinous, violent crimes that share the same downward trend over the same period of time. >the data I showed correlates reduction in RAPE with availability of porn I could also draw a graph of rapes going down from 1990 and mp3 usage going up, would that indicate that there is a causal relationship between the two? >nothing more, nothing less. That is factually untrue. I showed you data of another correlation. That would be the more or less. Unless the porn and rape graph is meaningful but the rape and murder graph is not? Or the rape and assault graph? Only porn has a meaningful correlation to rape? If your assertion is that rape does not correlate with other violent crime then the onus is on you to provide data and explain why. Also I’m not anti-porn at all. I think it’s great and consenting adults should be able to watch other consenting adults do whatever. But I have never seen a worse argument for it than “porn line go up rape line go down down therefore causality”. It is a fantastical and indefensible assertion based on anecdotes at best. It is basically what I would come up with if my specific goal was to not be taken seriously.