4 ms·

I think you are only considering the users - for the business provider the availability has larger meaning because the lack of it can bankrupt your business. It

by nicce 1y ago

I think you are only considering the users - for the business provider the availability has larger meaning because the lack of it can bankrupt your business. It is about securing operations.

leni536 1y ago
Virtually all bugs have some cost. Security bugs tend to be more expensive than others, but it doesn't mean that all very expensive bugs are security bugs.
em-bee 1y ago
not paying rent can get you evicted. and not paying your medical bill can get you denied care. (in china most medical care is not very expensive, but every procedure has to be paid in advance. you probably won't be denied emergency care so your life would not be in immediate danger, but sometimes an optional scan discovers something life threatening that you weren't aware of so not being able to pay for it can put you at risk)
arp242 1y ago
If a panic or null pointer deref in some library causes your entire business to go down long enough that you go bankrupt, then you probably deserve to go out of business because your software is junk.
- nicce 1y ago
  I believe you know well that bankrupt is the worst case. Many business functions can be so critical that 24h disturbance is enough to cause high financial damages or even loss of life. A bug in the car's brakes that prevents their usage is also denial of service.
  - arp242 1y ago
    Or 24h disturbance. Or indeed taking the entire system down at all. And no one is talking about safety-critical systems. You are moving the goalposts. Does a gas pedal use a markdown or XML parser? No.
    - nicce 1y ago
      The point was about the importance of availability. > Does a gas pedal use a markdown or XML parser? No. Cars in general use, extensively: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUTOSAR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUTOSAR
      - int_19h 1y ago
        Great, then we have someone with both resources and an incentive to write and maintain an XML parser with strict availability guarantees.
        fodkodrasz 1y ago
        Automotive companies pay big buck to vendors who supply certified tools/libraries, because getting stuff certified is lot of work/time. This also means that those stuff are often outdated, and a pain to work with, yet their vendors are not expected to function as charities, as often expected by FLOSS authors, esp. when releasing their code under BSD/MIT licenses and then getting eaten by the sharks.
      - fodkodrasz 1y ago
        AUTOSAR xml-s are compile-time/integration time toolchain metadata mostly in my memory. Yet this is off topic for the libxml funding/bug debate. For embedded mission critical C libxml is surely unsuitable, just like 99.99% of the open source third party code. Also unneeded. If crashes the app on the developer machine or in the build pipeline if it runs out of memory? Who cares (from a safety point of view)? That has nothing to do with availability of safety critical systems in the car.

by nicce 1y ago

I think you are only considering the users - for the business provider the availability has larger meaning because the lack of it can bankrupt your business. It is about securing operations.

leni536 1y ago

Virtually all bugs have some cost. Security bugs tend to be more expensive than others, but it doesn't mean that all very expensive bugs are security bugs.

em-bee 1y ago

not paying rent can get you evicted. and not paying your medical bill can get you denied care. (in china most medical care is not very expensive, but every procedure has to be paid in advance. you probably won't be denied emergency care so your life would not be in immediate danger, but sometimes an optional scan discovers something life threatening that you weren't aware of so not being able to pay for it can put you at risk)

arp242 1y ago

If a panic or null pointer deref in some library causes your entire business to go down long enough that you go bankrupt, then you probably deserve to go out of business because your software is junk.

nicce 1y ago
I believe you know well that bankrupt is the worst case. Many business functions can be so critical that 24h disturbance is enough to cause high financial damages or even loss of life. A bug in the car's brakes that prevents their usage is also denial of service.
- arp242 1y ago
  Or 24h disturbance. Or indeed taking the entire system down at all. And no one is talking about safety-critical systems. You are moving the goalposts. Does a gas pedal use a markdown or XML parser? No.
  - nicce 1y ago
    The point was about the importance of availability. > Does a gas pedal use a markdown or XML parser? No. Cars in general use, extensively: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUTOSAR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUTOSAR
    - int_19h 1y ago
      Great, then we have someone with both resources and an incentive to write and maintain an XML parser with strict availability guarantees.
      - fodkodrasz 1y ago
        Automotive companies pay big buck to vendors who supply certified tools/libraries, because getting stuff certified is lot of work/time. This also means that those stuff are often outdated, and a pain to work with, yet their vendors are not expected to function as charities, as often expected by FLOSS authors, esp. when releasing their code under BSD/MIT licenses and then getting eaten by the sharks.
    - fodkodrasz 1y ago
      AUTOSAR xml-s are compile-time/integration time toolchain metadata mostly in my memory. Yet this is off topic for the libxml funding/bug debate. For embedded mission critical C libxml is surely unsuitable, just like 99.99% of the open source third party code. Also unneeded. If crashes the app on the developer machine or in the build pipeline if it runs out of memory? Who cares (from a safety point of view)? That has nothing to do with availability of safety critical systems in the car.