3 ms·

Same situation in Spain, incredible brain drain of IT people. In the last months ~ 40% of my IT colleagues in Spain have decided to move to other countries (UK

Same situation in Spain, incredible brain drain of IT people. In the last months ~ 40% of my IT colleagues in Spain have decided to move to other countries (UK and Germany mainly). In Spain people a few years ago said stupid things to justify not moving to other countries where salaries were like 3 times Spanish ones: weather, food and «quality of life». There is another factor for this delayed and flood-like emigration... FAMILY!. In all Mediterranean countries family is very a strong influence. I even can say that individuals doesn't exists as they are in other countries. A 18 years old in Spain is like a 13 years old in UK. You can be in your 30's and the family will still be pushing you to be in the «right path». For many, many years family decided that the best prospect for their young college graduates was, without any doubt, working for the government. In Spain it means a decent salary and a job for life (you cannot be fired under ANY circumstance, ANY AT ALL, you kill someone, go to jail and when you get out your job will be there waiting for you!). Once this absurd situation ended (the government in Spain duplicated its work force in 3 years) the «family» didn't know how to react. But the government knows better, in the last 3 years the tv programs «Spaniard around the world» showing happy people living in other countries. So now, the «family» is pushing their children to go outside. My company is hiring people in London and we only receive CV from Spaniard and Greeks. My boss told me that 1 year and a half ago it was really rare to find people from these countries in selection processed but that now the recruiters are flooded with their CVs. I suspect that the mediterranean IT guy/pal will be the new Polish plumber in UK

yeureka 14y ago
"I suspect that the mediterranean IT guy/pal will be the new Polish plumber in UK" That actually made me laugh. I will be a stereotype!
davidw 14y ago
> In Spain people a few years ago said stupid things to justify not moving to other countries where salaries were like 3 times Spanish ones: weather, food and «quality of life». I don't think that's stupid. I get seriously depressed when it's gray, gray, gray all the time, which is one of the reasons I moved from Oregon to Italy many years ago. I also like how some interpersonal dynamics are here: all my 'nerd' friends here have always fit in pretty well, and don't seem to have the stories that people do in the US about cliques and being excluded and intellectual achievement being looked down on. Maybe some teasing, maybe not being the most popular people, but they all seem to fit in pretty well. It depends on who you are and what you like, and how much you're willing to sacrifice. Currently, the sacrifice is much larger because of how poorly things are going in many Mediterranean countries, so it makes more sense to leave.
- josemariaruiz 14y ago
  Yes Davidw, but I can tell you something about quality of life... it doesn't exists if you don't have money :) Salaries in Spain for IT are so absurd: 600~1500 EUR/month in the south. If you are in the 1500EUR/month salary you are a lucky bastard! Spain is going to change in a really bad way in the next one or two decades and no one wants to be there when they can stay at 5 hours of flight in UK (including bus/train to the airport and arriving home in Spain).
  - davidw 14y ago
    I agree: it's a tradeoff. Some people aren't bothered by the weather in Berlin, and so the extra cash is great for them. Also, like I said, right now things are particularly bad in many southern European countries, so for more people, going abroad is going to be a more attractive option.
  - justincormack 14y ago
    The real question is why companies are still not able to compete even with these lower costs. Other inefficiencies and being in the wrong markets?
    - davidw 14y ago
      That's the takehome pay - there are pretty high taxes, so the total that the company is paying might be much higher, and the labor market is very rigid: at least in Italy, it's very difficult to fire someone once they have obtained a 'permanent position'. Still though, I think there are opportunities to be had; things like what Fabrizio Capobianco did with Funambol. I can only find stories in Italian that focus more on the Italian aspect of their operations: http://www.workingcapital.telecomitalia.it/2010/09/i-piedi-in-silicon-valley-e-la-testa-in-italia-intervista-a-fabrizio-capobianco-di-funambol/ http://www.workingcapital.telecomitalia.it/2010/09/i-piedi-i...
      - jeltz 14y ago
        Well, both taxes and salaries are higher in Northern Europe and our companies are still competitive so that is not the reason why the Spanish IT companies are not competitive.
Tomek_ 14y ago
Well, I'm from Germany but working in Spain - regularly getting job offers from UK, Ireland, Germany, even San Francisco, with 2, 3, 4 times bigger salaries. But still: weather, food, people and yes, "quality of life" - those things are keeping me here. Recently visited Porto, and damn, that place is so fantastic that I started to think about moving in there. Because, pardon being a bit cheesy here, life is more than having a good salary, a house and drink a pint of Guinness in a local bar on a Friday night. At least for me, that is.

yeureka 14y ago

"I suspect that the mediterranean IT guy/pal will be the new Polish plumber in UK" That actually made me laugh. I will be a stereotype!

davidw 14y ago

> In Spain people a few years ago said stupid things to justify not moving to other countries where salaries were like 3 times Spanish ones: weather, food and «quality of life». I don't think that's stupid. I get seriously depressed when it's gray, gray, gray all the time, which is one of the reasons I moved from Oregon to Italy many years ago. I also like how some interpersonal dynamics are here: all my 'nerd' friends here have always fit in pretty well, and don't seem to have the stories that people do in the US about cliques and being excluded and intellectual achievement being looked down on. Maybe some teasing, maybe not being the most popular people, but they all seem to fit in pretty well. It depends on who you are and what you like, and how much you're willing to sacrifice. Currently, the sacrifice is much larger because of how poorly things are going in many Mediterranean countries, so it makes more sense to leave.

josemariaruiz 14y ago
Yes Davidw, but I can tell you something about quality of life... it doesn't exists if you don't have money :) Salaries in Spain for IT are so absurd: 600~1500 EUR/month in the south. If you are in the 1500EUR/month salary you are a lucky bastard! Spain is going to change in a really bad way in the next one or two decades and no one wants to be there when they can stay at 5 hours of flight in UK (including bus/train to the airport and arriving home in Spain).
- davidw 14y ago
  I agree: it's a tradeoff. Some people aren't bothered by the weather in Berlin, and so the extra cash is great for them. Also, like I said, right now things are particularly bad in many southern European countries, so for more people, going abroad is going to be a more attractive option.
- justincormack 14y ago
  The real question is why companies are still not able to compete even with these lower costs. Other inefficiencies and being in the wrong markets?
  - davidw 14y ago
    That's the takehome pay - there are pretty high taxes, so the total that the company is paying might be much higher, and the labor market is very rigid: at least in Italy, it's very difficult to fire someone once they have obtained a 'permanent position'. Still though, I think there are opportunities to be had; things like what Fabrizio Capobianco did with Funambol. I can only find stories in Italian that focus more on the Italian aspect of their operations: http://www.workingcapital.telecomitalia.it/2010/09/i-piedi-in-silicon-valley-e-la-testa-in-italia-intervista-a-fabrizio-capobianco-di-funambol/ http://www.workingcapital.telecomitalia.it/2010/09/i-piedi-i...
    - jeltz 14y ago
      Well, both taxes and salaries are higher in Northern Europe and our companies are still competitive so that is not the reason why the Spanish IT companies are not competitive.

Tomek_ 14y ago

Well, I'm from Germany but working in Spain - regularly getting job offers from UK, Ireland, Germany, even San Francisco, with 2, 3, 4 times bigger salaries. But still: weather, food, people and yes, "quality of life" - those things are keeping me here. Recently visited Porto, and damn, that place is so fantastic that I started to think about moving in there. Because, pardon being a bit cheesy here, life is more than having a good salary, a house and drink a pint of Guinness in a local bar on a Friday night. At least for me, that is.