4 ms·

As a non-Windows user, can someone neatly summarize what the problem is? I recently used Windows 11 a bit to port an app, and while it's a horrible OS to dev on

by sho_hn 1y ago

As a non-Windows user, can someone neatly summarize what the problem is? I recently used Windows 11 a bit to port an app, and while it's a horrible OS to dev on, the UX just seemed like any other Windows.

dayvid 1y ago
They moved the windows icon to the center
- Lammy 1y ago
  And you can't drag the taskbar to the left or right side of the screen any more which is a deal-breaker for me. Leftsyde krew
doubled112 1y ago
I'm not a fan of advertisements from my OS. I paid for it. If I'm running Windows 11 Professional, I don't need the Windows Store to tell me I should check out Avowed Premium Edition in a meeting. Or is somebody going to tell me it's my fault for leaving notifications on?
- crtasm 1y ago
  >check out Avowed Premium Edition I'm getting this on Windows 10 now :(
Macha 1y ago
The TPM requirements rule out a lot of computers older than 5 years old. With the pace of modern hardware development, a lot of these computers are still perfectly serviceable. People are unhappy at being told to buy new hardware when they have working hardware. (Other things that have concerned people: Further attempts to force people to microsoft accounts, more invasive copilot promotion, recall, A/B tested ads in explorer, etc.)
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >The TPM requirements rule out a lot of computers older than 5 years old. Why do people love making false claims with confidence? As of today, 5 years ago was 2020, not 2015. TPM 2.0 requirement is fulfilled by CPUs since at least 2017, but that's not the main compatibility issue. Windows 11 requires VBS (Virtualization Based Security) HW support, which only works on CPUs from Intel 8th gen or Ryzen 2000 series, which are of vintage 2017-2018 not 2020. VBS is quite the nice security feature to have so it makes sense to see Microsoft mandating it at some point in order to enhance security going forward. Edit: damn, even posting facts on HN gets you downvoted
  - LordDragonfang 1y ago
    Lots of budget PCs sold as new today use chips from 3+ years ago, and several use ones from 5+ years ago. (This is especially common with old i7s, because your average consumer has been fooled by marketing to think that an i7 is automatically better than an i5). Anecdotally, this practice was even more common 5 years ago (the last time I shopped for prebuilts for my parents). (That said, I agree that complaining about the TPM requirement specifically is ridiculous - MS has offered ways around the TPM requirement for upgraders. And more relevantly, any CPU that old is going have bigger problems when the UI is basically all React Native)
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >Lots of budget PCs sold as new today use chips [...] from 5+ years ago. Source? Links? Plus, what does this have to do with Microsoft and Intel, what do HW and SW vendors have to do with a retailer selling you dated products? ? If you buy a new iPhone 6 today and realize you don't get any more SW updates do you blame Apple?
      - LordDragonfang 1y ago
        > Source? Links? Okay, it seems like I misremembered, because the ones I'm thinking of have "(renewed)" slapped onto them, but literally the first result for "budget desktop" on Amazon (And the second for "Dell desktop", a brand that boomers trust) has a seven year old CPU: https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-3060-Computer-Professional/dp/B0CKTM52YC https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-3060-Computer-Professio... And I don't expect an average consumer to know that "renewed" is code for "literally no parts are new and it's probably worse than the product you're replacing" - because why would they? No other product category this way. Obviously we know enough to not trust it, but they have no reason to believe that "reliable companies like Dell" are selling already-broken merchandise. And no, it's technically not Microsoft's fault (in fact, the TPM requirement is probably good exactly because it prevent vendors selling these pieces of crap) but it is the reality we live in, so you have to account for it when you act like all computers bought today have processors manufactured in the last few years. > If you buy a new iPhone 6 today and realize you don't get any more SW updates do you blame Apple? Obviously yes? If I (or again, my Dad who know nothing about computers) can walk out of an Apple store with a device that is already unsupported, that's Apple's fault, not his.
sergiotapia 1y ago
One example: they will throttle your hardware with energy efficiency mode and you CANNOT turn it off. Enjoy using 20% of what you paid for. Insane!

by sho_hn 1y ago

dayvid 1y ago

They moved the windows icon to the center

Lammy 1y ago
And you can't drag the taskbar to the left or right side of the screen any more which is a deal-breaker for me. Leftsyde krew

doubled112 1y ago

I'm not a fan of advertisements from my OS. I paid for it. If I'm running Windows 11 Professional, I don't need the Windows Store to tell me I should check out Avowed Premium Edition in a meeting. Or is somebody going to tell me it's my fault for leaving notifications on?

crtasm 1y ago
>check out Avowed Premium Edition I'm getting this on Windows 10 now :(

Macha 1y ago

The TPM requirements rule out a lot of computers older than 5 years old. With the pace of modern hardware development, a lot of these computers are still perfectly serviceable. People are unhappy at being told to buy new hardware when they have working hardware. (Other things that have concerned people: Further attempts to force people to microsoft accounts, more invasive copilot promotion, recall, A/B tested ads in explorer, etc.)

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
>The TPM requirements rule out a lot of computers older than 5 years old. Why do people love making false claims with confidence? As of today, 5 years ago was 2020, not 2015. TPM 2.0 requirement is fulfilled by CPUs since at least 2017, but that's not the main compatibility issue. Windows 11 requires VBS (Virtualization Based Security) HW support, which only works on CPUs from Intel 8th gen or Ryzen 2000 series, which are of vintage 2017-2018 not 2020. VBS is quite the nice security feature to have so it makes sense to see Microsoft mandating it at some point in order to enhance security going forward. Edit: damn, even posting facts on HN gets you downvoted
- LordDragonfang 1y ago
  Lots of budget PCs sold as new today use chips from 3+ years ago, and several use ones from 5+ years ago. (This is especially common with old i7s, because your average consumer has been fooled by marketing to think that an i7 is automatically better than an i5). Anecdotally, this practice was even more common 5 years ago (the last time I shopped for prebuilts for my parents). (That said, I agree that complaining about the TPM requirement specifically is ridiculous - MS has offered ways around the TPM requirement for upgraders. And more relevantly, any CPU that old is going have bigger problems when the UI is basically all React Native)
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >Lots of budget PCs sold as new today use chips [...] from 5+ years ago. Source? Links? Plus, what does this have to do with Microsoft and Intel, what do HW and SW vendors have to do with a retailer selling you dated products? ? If you buy a new iPhone 6 today and realize you don't get any more SW updates do you blame Apple?
    - LordDragonfang 1y ago
      > Source? Links? Okay, it seems like I misremembered, because the ones I'm thinking of have "(renewed)" slapped onto them, but literally the first result for "budget desktop" on Amazon (And the second for "Dell desktop", a brand that boomers trust) has a seven year old CPU: https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-3060-Computer-Professional/dp/B0CKTM52YC https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-3060-Computer-Professio... And I don't expect an average consumer to know that "renewed" is code for "literally no parts are new and it's probably worse than the product you're replacing" - because why would they? No other product category this way. Obviously we know enough to not trust it, but they have no reason to believe that "reliable companies like Dell" are selling already-broken merchandise. And no, it's technically not Microsoft's fault (in fact, the TPM requirement is probably good exactly because it prevent vendors selling these pieces of crap) but it is the reality we live in, so you have to account for it when you act like all computers bought today have processors manufactured in the last few years. > If you buy a new iPhone 6 today and realize you don't get any more SW updates do you blame Apple? Obviously yes? If I (or again, my Dad who know nothing about computers) can walk out of an Apple store with a device that is already unsupported, that's Apple's fault, not his.

sergiotapia 1y ago

One example: they will throttle your hardware with energy efficiency mode and you CANNOT turn it off. Enjoy using 20% of what you paid for. Insane!