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I don’t think people realize this is going to escalate the conflict. There are other bunker busters that can do the job, but they are all nuclear.
by m_a_g 1y ago
I don’t think people realize this is going to escalate the conflict. There are other bunker busters that can do the job, but they are all nuclear.
- dragonelite 1y agoLooks like tactical nukes is on the menu, boys... Is probably what the Russian and Chinese reaction to a tactical nuke usage even if it was for bunker busting.
- 4gotunameagain 1y agoYeah obviously bombing a state is an escalation of conflict. I wonder how much the US taxpayer paid for 6 B2 bombers to drop 12 mega bombs for the benefit of Israel.
- lnsru 1y agoI am not sure about the benefit of Israel. But it was impressive demonstration of power. I mean flying around half globe undetected and delivering huge bombs no one else has. I have hard time calculating dollar value of such future negotiation argument.
- skywhopper 1y agoI’m not sure about this. B2s were heavily used in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as well, so Iran is well aware of their range. To me, I think this mission just demonstrates how little we get out of all that money. The small number of B2s, the extreme mission time, the relatively low payload, and the ultimate lack of clarity of success for this mission don’t make me feel like the US is particularly powerful or is spending its money well.
- owebmaster 1y agoAs a South American, I'm not impressed at all.
- sixQuarks 1y agoC’mon stop being so naive. All the Middle East wars the US has fought has been for the benefit of Israel. Read project for a new American century. It laid out all the countries the US should take out for benefit of Israel. The only one we haven’t so far is Iran.
- navane 1y agoI think you got it backwards. Israël is just another military base for the US. Everything the US does "for Israël" is to keep a fat finger in the middle eastern porridge. The base is not entirely in their control, but also doesn't shed US military lives when it stirs the pot. Using a local minority to project influence over their majority neighbors. A play as old as colonialism.
- runlaszlorun 1y agoI love it when two conspiracies start conflicting.
- sixQuarks 1y agoIf that’s the case, then why does almost every US politician have an AIPAC handler? It’s obvious Israel is the one who controls our politicians, not the other way around.
- optimalsolver 1y agoDemonstration of power? We don't even know if it worked.
- TheCondor 1y agoWhat if the demonstration of power was for Americans?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- skywhopper 1y agoOver and above the cost of maintaining the B2 fleet, at least $100 million for the mission, logistical support, munitions, plus the reported feint-mission using additional B2s on the westward route.
- christophilus 1y agoNot much more than is spent in training missions, I’d guess, and this training is much more valuable. That said, I’m just a programmer and have no idea.
- 4gotunameagain 1y agoCan you point to a training mission where multiple aircraft & refueling flying tankers cross half the globe to drop multiple huge, presumably very expensive bombs ? I doubt they are conducted that often at this scale.
- le-mark 1y agoThey do it all the time with simulated targets and ordnance.
- rurp 1y agoI'm just a civilian on the internet but the total cost was much much more than a just the bomber flight. Getting the equipment and related crews across the globe to the target in a highly secure way is non-trivial. Just based on public info the preparations for potential retaliation were significant across many different US properties in the region and abroad.
- icameron 1y agoI heard a number of 260 million in an article, if that’s any help.
- jddddam 1y agoIsrael has already obliterated Iranian air defense and flattened the surroundings. Can someone tell me why the US or Israel can’t just fly in a Seal Team that goes into the facility, plants a bunch of C4 and calls it a day? They can surely ringfence and defend the area by putting fighter jets and a couple hundred drones in the air while the operation is ongoing.
- nmfisher 1y agoProbably because the last time the USA tried something like this, they lost 8 soldiers and about the same number of helicopters. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
- potato3732842 1y agoAnd it's a really, really, really sore subject in Iran so even if it "goes well" it represents a much larger escalation than doing the same thing in a different country would.
- pjc50 1y agoI'm not sure, the last time the US did this it was in Pakistan and resulted in no escalation consequences whatsoever. (mind you, the idea that a raid on a fortified facility, rather than lightly or undefended civilian buildings, would be an easy win, is the real delusion)
- diggan 1y agoWell, "special operations" that involves foreigners running around in sovereign countries setting of bombs tend to be a sore subject in most countries I can think of, not sure Iran is very special in that regard.
- pjc50 1y agoSo does bombing them from the air and assassinating their senior leadership (and a number of civilians who had the misfortune to be standing near them at the time)!
- potato3732842 1y ago>this is going to escalate the conflict. Sure, if by "this" you mean media and a segment of the population harping on how the strike did little or nothing. After the strike and before this reporting Israel could justify deescalation by saying the nuclear program was crippled and Iran could justify deescalation by acting like it was no big deal and they lobbed counter strikes to great effect (lol) and the US could justify deescalation with the usual "look what happens to brown foreigners who cross us and our buddies" schtick and from there the matter could be quietly dropped, at least as much as such things can be. That may all still happen, but all this rhetoric about how the strikes were ineffective is driving things toward escalation.
- nkrisc 1y agoBut is it true?
- lantry 1y agoThe media is reporting the world as it is, not the world as it should be. It's not their job to de-escalate. Kinda silly IMO to blame the people writing articles instead of blaming the people dropping bombs and launching missiles.
- mingus88 1y ago> The media is reporting the world as it is Do you honestly believe this?
- lantry 1y agono, because it's much more complicated than can be summed up in a hn comment. "the media" is not a real thing, it's just a term that refers vaguely to a very large collection of different people, each of whom has different beliefs, ideas, and goals. What they write/say will be filtered through those beliefs, ideas, and goals. If my neighbor, who grew up in Canada, says "it's not very cold out today", he is attempting to describe the world as it is. Is he correct? If I consider him to be incorrect, it doesn't follow that he is trying to mislead me.
- pjc50 1y agoI'm not sure Iran has many options for escalation left. Other than actually completing the nuke, which is something of a circular argument: they might escalate by building a nuclear weapon, but the only reason alleged for Israel escalating against them (which of course gets a free pass) is .. they're building a nuclear weapon. You can't escalate by doing something you're already doing. It only counts as escalation if they weren't building a nuke but Israel bombing their nuke programme forced them to build a nuke?
- perihelions 1y agoI think it's just the one nuclear bunker-buster (B61 mod 11). "Get To Know America’s Long Serving B61 Family Of Nuclear Bombs" (2019) https://www.twz.com/19263/get-to-know-americas-long-serving-b61-family-of-nuclear-bombs https://www.twz.com/19263/get-to-know-americas-long-serving-... > "The most recent operational variant, the B61-11, entered service in 1997 and is the first to dramatically differ in form, as well as function. The U.S. military treats this version as a combination tactical and strategic bomb even though it’s based on the B61-7 and reportedly has a single, maximum yield of approximately 340-400 kilotons." > "The bigger difference, though, is that it has a significantly reinforced shell, possibly with a depleted uranium penetrating nose section, a delay fuzing system, and a booster rocket motor in the rear, all so it can break into deeply buried, hardened facilities. There are less than 100 of these bombs in existence, according to publicly available data, and the United States more or less built them with one specific target in mind." > "In 1996, Russia finished work on its Kosvinsky Kamen bunker, part its so-called “continuity of government” plans to protect senior leadership in the event of a nuclear strike or other major emergency. Similar in concept and reportedly similarly—if not better—protected than the U.S. military’s Cheyenne Mountain Complex or Site R, also known Raven Rock, the Kremlin built it specifically to be hardened against nuclear weapons going off up above. The B61-11’s job was to put even those defenses beyond reach in what would likely already be an apocalyptic scenario." > "Before the B61-11, the United States planned to use a much less elegant approach when it came to nuclear bunker busting, relying on aging B53 bombs, a design dating back to 1958 for this purpose. These 12-foot long, 4-foot wide, nearly 9,000 pound weapons would have used the sheer explosive power of their 9 megaton yield to create massive craters and crush underground targets. The U.S. government also explored using a modified B83-1, with its 1.2 megaton yield, for the role before deciding on the modified B61." (The article also discusses the newer B61-12 as a potential substitute, although it's unclear as the key information is secret).
- aosixnskak 1y agoEscalation is inevitable. Israel wants regime change. The US (Trump) simply wants Irans nukes gone. Israel has outsized influence in US policy and has shown they’re willing to escalate if things look like they may deescalate - this whole thing started because Israel decided to attack during negotiations. The only way this deescalates is if the US is able to regain some sovereignty and remove the parasitic influences dragging us to war. From Trumps cabinet to the broader administration, military industrial complex, media and even many prominent billionaires like Adelson - there’s too many Zionists pulling the strings.