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Tesla sales decline in Europe for fifth straight month as rivals gain ground
- mcv 1y agoI don't think anyone is surprised about this. We don't like fascism over here. At least not the kind of people who buy electric cars.
- drstewart 1y agoGiven Chinese car sales are up, it does seem you do like native ethnic genocides though
- quonn 1y agoIt's not quite the same thing, though. Nobody would really care about the CEO's private opinions, no matter how unpleasant, but funding and running public campaigns for far-right parties (or threatening to do so even in Europe) is very different.
- mcv 1y agoThe BYD CEO (whoever that is) is a lot less in your face about their support for that. Let's face it, it's easy to ignore this stuff if it happens quietly. Tesla would probably have been fine if Musk had quietly financed Musk. He's being too public and blatant about it. Most consumers don't actually care that much until you rub their faces in it. Which Musk does. It would absolutely be better if consumers were more aware of the hidden atrocities behind the products they buy. I try to avoid Chinese products, don't buy from Amazon, I've got a Fairphone, am picky about where my chocolate comes from, and avoid Chiquita, Nestle and brands like that. But I'm a tiny minority. We do need more awareness about this sort of thing. But even with all the awareness that Musk is creating about his own fascism, there are still people buying his cars.
- msgodel 1y agoSo it's ok as long as it's quiet?
- archagon 1y agoAs far as I can tell, the BYD CEO is not actively trying to influence global politics to make life miserable for me and my friends.
- msgodel 1y agoNearly every American tech company actively started going after "White people" (which is just another name for Europeans) both with political PR and with actual actions and that didn't seem to effect their European sales so that's probably not it.
- archagon 1y agoOccam's razor: your premise is false. Nobody feels aggrieved by these purported actions except far-right pundits and those trapped in their propaganda web. (And I say this as a white person.) In contrast, Musk said that people I care about were part of the "parasite class" and chuckled about cutting their benefits. Fuck that.
- msgodel 1y agoHow is that Occam's razor? Also that's a little bold of you to speak for rest of us that way.
- mcv 1y agoWhat do you mean by "go after white people"? They go after everybody. American tech companies plaster every corner of the internet with whatever they're trying to sell or own. And if you want to boycott them, I'm all for that. I don't buy from Amazon or Microsoft either. There are alternatives to Google. It's true that they've made enormous inroads into Europe in recent years, but now that they all seem to support America's increasing turn towards fascism, you will also see Europe slowly move away from them. But abandoning the cloud infrastructure that you just invested millions in, is a lot harder than buying a different car, so the change is slower.
- ZeroGravitas 1y agoMore than half of Tesla's cars are made in China.
- GardenLetter27 1y agoNeither Musk nor China are fascist, it's a shame to see this sort of hyperbole take over HackerNews too.
- kreetx 1y agoYup. I would assume people in Europe have a good idea on what it looks like from memories passed on from grandparents. I guess the losing chunk of US population can't stop shaming the other party.
- f33d5173 1y agoChina is facially a fascist state. Fascism isn't a simple pejorative, its a category of political ideologies that can and have been implemented. There's no hyperbole in stating that.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y agoMusk deliberately and publicly made two Nazi salutes - it's certainly not hyperbole to refer to him as a fascist
- mcv 1y agoMusk absolutely is. He has made that abundantly clear. His support for antisemitism and other forms of racism, his embrace of extremists, his support for AfD and Trump, his Nazi salute. He has very clearly shown us who he is. China is something else. Not entirely sure what; possible entirely its own thing, but definitely totalitarian.
- Zigurd 1y agoWould it be an appeal to authority to point to the Germans' reaction to Elon's salute and say "They might know?"
- adlpz 1y agoThat's called voting with your wallet.
- petesergeant 1y agoPerhaps, but there’s also just many good alternatives now.
- quonn 1y agoI'll believe it when I see, say, a someone in a VW (or similar) driving across Europe without having to think about chargers, broken stations and cables, fiddling with different payment system card and having a screen that actually works safely (as opposed to long lags and not showing the required information). The software is a terrible mess for most brands and the charging infrastructure as well. Tesla's competition still costs about 25-50% more. It will take at least another 5 years or longer for someone to catch up.
- tossandthrow 1y agoI don't think people see the software as an intrinsic feature of getting from a to b - yet. Charging infrastructure really depends. In the northern country the alternatives are great and even Tesla owners would likely use alternative charging infrastructure - unless they want to take detours to get to Tesla charging points.
- quonn 1y agoThere are very rarely any detours worth mentioning on highways anymore. I can confidently say this, because I regularly take trips across Europe, crossing 5 countries per trip (~3000 kms).
- gniv 1y agoWe're talking about Europe here. The choices are there. Around here (greater Paris) I see a lot of Chinese brands (BYD, MG, Volvo) and domestics too (VW, Renault). Edit: I meant to reply to u/petesergeant above.
- quonn 1y agoElon could turn Tesla's car business around by apologizing, letting go of his extreme compensation claims, keeping shares of only 15% instead of 25% and working pro bono in the future. Otherwise it is difficult to see how they could still succeed, even if they ever manage to produce a perfect FSD. He brought this on himself.
- atemerev 1y agoCan't turn this around. We remember all he did. The only way to turn it around would be to resign as Tesla CEO.
- timbit42 1y agoThat wouldn't be enough. He still owns a chunk of the stock.
- skeletal88 1y agoNo idea why you are downvoted. He should apologise,stay quiet, not get involved in politics or try to influence elections in Europe by supporting far right or other extreme parties.
- tacker2000 1y agoNot sure if he can salvage it at this point. Even if he steps away completely, the brand is still damaged and the competition is catching up pretty fast.
- mattlondon 1y agoRegardless of the politics, the new look for the Model Y is awful in my opinion. They took something that was quite tidily styled and classy (IMHO) looking, and have made it into this weird horizontal slit thing that looks cheap and nasty, and feels at odds with the rest of the car's shape and massing. A real mess of a facelift I think - no one would willing pick that if they cared about what it looks like.
- V__ 1y agoElon probably can't accept that his Cybertruck design sucks, so he is slowly forcing the design language onto other models.
- Fade_Dance 1y agoI suppose looks are subjective. I think the facelift is appealing, and from what I've seen online the general reaction has been pretty good in comment sections. Most importantly, it differentiates the model y from the model 3. Before the facelift the y sort of looked like a bloated model 3 with the exact same design language.
- quonn 1y agoI like the new look of the Y. I dislike the new look of the Model 3, though, which looked kind of cute and from the front somewhat like a Porsche and now looks sort of aggressive with the thin lights.
- dzhiurgis 1y agothey look good irl and pretty poor in photos. regardless - you do realize tesla isn't about the looks, but user convenience? No car comes close it's integration.
- Gareth321 1y agoI guess it has been polarising but I have to be honest: I quite like it. Of course it's not Porsche or Audi styling, but I think it's clean and understated and quite functional. Some of the negative sentiment appears to draw parallels with Chinese brands. Perhaps that's true, but I don't dislike BYD styling.
- GardenLetter27 1y agoThe EU needs to end the tariffs on Chinese EVs. It's funny they say climate change is a critical emergency (with several countries making measures to effectively ban AC), but then stick to stuff like that.
- pjmlp 1y agoStopping wars and AI everything would do much more for the planet than dealing with paper straws. Yet here we are, with no end in sight for them, while I have to feel guilty to prefer something that doesn't destroy itself after a few seconds in contact with liquids, or to take the car, because transport network only favours those that already live in the city.
- GardenLetter27 1y agoWhy AI? AI is a big productivity booster, better to just generate more nuclear and renewable power, and then use AI to improve things more (same argument for AC). Energy usage doesn't have to correspond to environmental damage much at all. This degrowth mindset is the whole problem with the EU. They focus on scarcity and cutbacks and regulation and bans, rather than addressing the underlying issues to spur on growth and innovation.
- pjmlp 1y agoBecause of the water cooling and all forms of producing energy that it entails. It is like loving the planet eating soja, while ignoring the forests being destroyed to satisfy demand as planting fields. Or farmable fields now being solar panel fields, because it is more profitable to sell energy, than living the farmer life, earning pennies for a hard work life, while kids die every day of lack of nutrition. To fix the planet, first we need to get rid of profit driven societies.
- froddd 1y agoSoya is a bad analogy here. When forests are being destroyed to grow soya, it isn’t primarily soy to feed humans, but to feed cattle/stock to then feed humans. This is an order of magnitude more destructive. Edit: fully agree with the sentiment, getting rid of the profit-driven mindset would be beneficial to all.
- jalict 1y agoOriginal article has bit more data and graphs https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-european-sales-slump-fifth-month-ev-rivals-gain-momentum-2025-06-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas...
- aaron695 1y ago[dead]
- brikym 1y agoIf it's just about politics then I think it's odd that people who think Elon is a Nazi would buy a car from a country which is actually a nationalist socialist dictatorship and effectively controls all the companies. I don't know if buying from one of the South Korean chaebol companies is any better either. If it's about function or form then I think the new Teslas are getting uglier with light bars and busy styling vs the old clean and minimal look.
- aniviacat 1y agoI think people generally aren't very attentive on issues like this, and Musk would have been fine had he stuck to merely saying political stuff. I think it's the Nazi salute where he really fucked up. Because even people that don't read (aka: most people) will look at an image of a Nazi salute and instantly have a strong opinion. As long as JinPing doesn't do a Nazi salute, most people won't care much about what the Chinese government is doing. The lesson of the story: Don't do controversial things in a way that makes a good cover page image.
- kibibu 1y agoAlso the openly supporting AfD didn't sit very well. It's not like it's in the past either, only a couple of weeks ago he publicly claimed that Trump is a child rapist, but notably seemed to have zero qualms cosying up to him anyway as long as he got to play DOGE saviour.
- Zigurd 1y agoFor a self-avowed Marxist-Leninist, Xi Jinping has a remarkably positive image in the West. I suppose most people don't think about how weird is Marxism-Leninism in the modern world. For example, the military is led by the Communist Party. Xi also appears to be far more serious about party orthodoxy than recent predecessors. China's neighbors tend to think much less positively about China and Xi. They can't afford to be uninformed.
- detaro 1y agoUnsurprisingly, many people care more about their local politics than those far away. Elon has loudly promoted far-right parties and talking points in my home country. (and of course Tesla and all the other brands do business in China anyways, a Tesla bought in Europe might very well come from Shanghai still afaik)
- atemerev 1y agoWell, naturally. I like my Model 3. It is a fantastic car. Charging infrastructure is bar none. Price is unbeatable. No range anxiety. But of course, were I choosing a car to buy today, I would have never bought it. That would be akin to doing business with Epstein. Some things are absolutely unforgivable.
- dzonga 1y agoTesla has no advantage over BYD and even electric cars from BMW. the iRange from BMW look better than any tesla - feel more premium too. with BYD - they make cheaper cars, are more experienced in making batteries than tesla. so what advantage does tesla have over their rivals ? yeah at first 'tech' people bought tesla's as a fashion statement but that period is over.
- GardenLetter27 1y agoTesla is the only one with consumer FSD technology. But that is banned in Europe atm, so it negates Tesla's main advantage.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoYou're right about FSD, but even Autopilot is 10 years old yet nobody is able to pull it off.
- f33d5173 1y agoIt's a gimmick even in the US and not the reason for their success there either.
- Gareth321 1y agoThere are a lot of very happy FSD users out there. Even two years ago, surveys showed an almost 2:1 ratio of satisfied to dissatisfied users. (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-tesla-survey/autopilot-features-satisfaction/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-tesla-survey/autopil...) I have tried it and it does work remarkably well. It's not perfect, however, and I think some people expect that.
- kibibu 1y ago> 2:1 ratio of satisfied to dissatisfied users That's an unusual way to say a full third of customers are dissatisfied with it.
- ckastner 1y agoThis is a bit misleading as the decline reported is year-on-year and of course sales haven't fully recovered yet. Quarter-on-quarter or month-by-month would have been much more interesting, could have shown a change in trend. Especially after Musk's departure from the administration.
- xiphias2 1y agoThe wohole thread is misleading here of course. At this point it's much more interesting how well the Robotaxi is doing. It's still not driving like Waymo (I didn't like how it is desregarding the rules), but in a few years if it is able to scale up, it will scale much much faster and cheaper.
- owebmaster 1y agoYes! In a few years it's going to be huge! Let us all buy the stocks now! /s
- baseballdork 1y ago> and of course sales haven't fully recovered yet I'm out of the loop here. Recovered from what? A few months ago in similar threads the going theory was that people were waiting for the new Y, and that's why there was a slump. The new Y is out and available, no? Are they just not up to full rate production?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dismalaf 1y agoThis was always going to happen. Tesla got first mover advantage but realistically, they never really had a tech advantage. It's easier for existing car companies to electrify than to create a new car company. Volkswagen group EVs are pretty good, Volvo/Polestar EVs look really good, BYD is like Tesla but with Chinese backing and seem to be pulling ahead in battery tech, Hyundai/Kia produce batteries and control a ton of their supply chain being a conglomerate, etc... Tesla's battery tech is stale, their designs are stale (except the Cybertruck which is hideous), and all this is before considering the US/Elon Musk craziness... Edit - should add, outside all the more innovative brands, every legacy brand has an EV as well.
- toyg 1y agoThe brand is all Tesla had left, once the competition caught up (and in practice they have). And now the brand too is damaged. Musk would have to resign and fully, publicly divest from the company, for it to recover. Or, he could start making hybrids and try to get support from the MAGA crowd. But in the current form, Tesla will die a slow death.
- schnitzelstoat 1y agoTesla is the Roomba of electric cars. Technologically behind the competition and more expensive too, but a strong brand name well known for being one of the first major electric car producers. Now the brand is toxic BYD etc. will overtake them in Europe too. Ironically, it's Europe's own tariffs against China that have protected them from BYD for this long.
- GardenLetter27 1y agoThey aren't technologically behind though - Tesla FSD is the best there is for consumers. But Europe bans FSD, so in Europe, Tesla is just more expensive for no benefit.
- rainsford 1y agoPeople care about a lot of technological features of their cars beyond "self-driving". Lots of people are also skeptical of "self-driving" that doesn't reach the level of allowing you to take nap while the car shuttles you to your destination, which Tesla certainly doesn't reach. Paradoxically, I think the closer you get to real self-driving without actually reaching it, the more skeptical people will become since it lulls you into a false sense of security. A car that mostly seems like it will drive itself but will occasionally and unpredictably try to kill you is much more concerning for most people than a car that helps you out but presents no illusion that you can stop paying attention.
- rich_sasha 1y agoThe problem is that they also built their whole story on Musk being the secret sauce and the magic sprinkle. He is the justification behind the PE ratio of (googles) 187x. Toyota's PE ratio, for a random comparison, is 6.5. It is unfair in many ways, but still, it shows the scale of the valuation gap!
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- palata 1y agoSomething that I don't see mentioned here: Tesla is a US company. It wouldn't surprised me if (on top of the far right support and Nazi salutes, of course), people in Europe were avoiding US companies.