3 ms·

There’s still a fortune to be made by whoever can crack seasonal storage. This is the ur-problem of humanity: to pay for the winter using the summer.

by jl6 1y ago

bestouff 1y ago
We're getting there. https://www.euronews.com/green/2025/06/15/sand-batteries-could-be-key-breakthrough-in-storing-solar-and-wind-energy-year-round https://www.euronews.com/green/2025/06/15/sand-batteries-cou...
- ffsm8 1y ago
  That's about storing heat, not electricity. While related insofar some electricity inevitably gets converted back into heating, I don't think its really relevant to this discussion which is explicitly about electricity.
  - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
    The winter peaks in gas and electricity are driven by heating demand. Electrification of heat combines the two and will make winter electricity peaks even peakier. So anything that reduces that heat demand at a lower cost is a relevant fix, this includes heat storage, district heating, general efficiency and insulation improvements etc.
ZeroGravitas 1y ago
In Europe wind power peaks in the winter so with batteries and hydro to smooth out the gaps you can get a combination of solar and wind to match your demand with relative ease. This does depend on location though, Texas wind peaks in Spring apparently. A parallel and necessary step (one that has, suspiciously, suddenly become a culture war for the far right in europe) is electrification of heating with heat pumps, which lets you use your existing gas infrastructure to meet winter generation needs.
- Paradigma11 1y ago
  The problem is that you still need the infrastructure to sustain through longer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkelflaute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkelflaute . It does not matter if you have to pay the fixed cost of the infrastructure to use it once or ten times a year. If we only need it every few years things will probably get worse since politicians might try to skirt it and hope nothing will go wrong during their tenure. I am not arguing against intermittent energy sources but we need to address these problems.
sidewndr46 1y ago
Since we're talking about Texas, you could just come up with a way to store all the natural gas we flare each year. Which is a huge amount. Or you could just sell it to places that could use it.
jmatthews 1y ago
Even if the round trip efficiency is 25%? Seasonal storage at competitive prices per megawatt hour is somewhat of a solved problem it just doesn't seem to be getting investment.

There’s still a fortune to be made by whoever can crack seasonal storage. This is the ur-problem of humanity: to pay for the winter using the summer.

by jl6 1y ago

There’s still a fortune to be made by whoever can crack seasonal storage. This is the ur-problem of humanity: to pay for the winter using the summer.

bestouff 1y ago

We're getting there. https://www.euronews.com/green/2025/06/15/sand-batteries-could-be-key-breakthrough-in-storing-solar-and-wind-energy-year-round https://www.euronews.com/green/2025/06/15/sand-batteries-cou...

ffsm8 1y ago
That's about storing heat, not electricity. While related insofar some electricity inevitably gets converted back into heating, I don't think its really relevant to this discussion which is explicitly about electricity.
- ZeroGravitas 1y ago
  The winter peaks in gas and electricity are driven by heating demand. Electrification of heat combines the two and will make winter electricity peaks even peakier. So anything that reduces that heat demand at a lower cost is a relevant fix, this includes heat storage, district heating, general efficiency and insulation improvements etc.

ZeroGravitas 1y ago

In Europe wind power peaks in the winter so with batteries and hydro to smooth out the gaps you can get a combination of solar and wind to match your demand with relative ease. This does depend on location though, Texas wind peaks in Spring apparently. A parallel and necessary step (one that has, suspiciously, suddenly become a culture war for the far right in europe) is electrification of heating with heat pumps, which lets you use your existing gas infrastructure to meet winter generation needs.

Paradigma11 1y ago
The problem is that you still need the infrastructure to sustain through longer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkelflaute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkelflaute . It does not matter if you have to pay the fixed cost of the infrastructure to use it once or ten times a year. If we only need it every few years things will probably get worse since politicians might try to skirt it and hope nothing will go wrong during their tenure. I am not arguing against intermittent energy sources but we need to address these problems.

sidewndr46 1y ago

Since we're talking about Texas, you could just come up with a way to store all the natural gas we flare each year. Which is a huge amount. Or you could just sell it to places that could use it.

jmatthews 1y ago

Even if the round trip efficiency is 25%? Seasonal storage at competitive prices per megawatt hour is somewhat of a solved problem it just doesn't seem to be getting investment.