14 ms·

This does not address anything from the article and is a (seemingly copy/pasted) generic tangent about X11.

by arp242 1y ago

DonHopkins 1y ago
If you'd read both the article and my post, you'd realize it does actually address the article. It's a quote from the chapter about X-Windows I wrote in the Unix Haters handbook in 1994. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook https://web.archive.org/web/20201120053257/http://www.simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20201120053257/http://www.simson... And a description of the screen spanning ruler app (or rather "Desk Accessory") that the Mac had around 1987 or so (I specifically remember Hugh showing it to me a few months before Black Monday). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_accessory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_accessory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987) Just like the article you apparently didn't read mentioned: >With my new knowledge, I also wrote an onscreen ruler using the shape extension. Somewhat tautological for measuring the two inch circle, but in the event anyone asks, I can now tell them my terminal line height is 1/8”, and yes, I measured. https://humungus.tedunangst.com/r/xtoys/v/tip/f/ruler.c https://humungus.tedunangst.com/r/xtoys/v/tip/f/ruler.c Now 38 years later, is there a ruler app for X-Windows that can span multiple screens yet? Or Wayland, even? Why don't you write one!
- arp242 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - DonHopkins 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - arp242 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - Qwertious 1y ago
      >Somebody just ASKED me to post more information, and they were even so kind as to say "please", so I did. If you object to that, then there is a "next" link you can press to skip over it without wasting your time replying! If that's too difficult and your panties are still in a bunch about my posting replies to legitimate questions, then take it up with sprash for asking. Happy clicking and toxic whining! Oh shit, is that what the "next" button is for? TYVM, and I mean that unironically.
- sprash 1y ago
  > 1994 Apparently you have to be criticizing X11 for more than three decades now. Since you seem to know your stuff, could you please post a link to your git repository containing your personal display server that solves all the problems?
  - linksnapzz 1y ago
    "..and yet, you participate in society...curious!"
  - DonHopkins 1y ago
    Since they bought Sun Microsystems, Oracle now owns the rights to the NeWS source code, so unfortunately I'm not legally allowed to post the NeWS server source code on my Github page, although I spent many years unsuccessfully fighting to make NeWS free and evangelizing it to anyone who would listen, like RMS and my colleagues and customers at Sun: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/rms.news.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/rms.news.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-ooo-review.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-ooo-review... https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/questionaire.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/questionaire.tx... https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/grasshopper.msg.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/grasshopper.msg... https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/sevans.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/sevans.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/Explanation.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/Explanation.txt But since you asked so kindly and said "please", here are some youtube videos, articles, and presentations -- thank you so much for asking and expressing your interest in learning and reading my ideas and code, I'm deeply flattered and delighted to oblige your request! ;) You asked for it, you got it: Toyota! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVHg1CjqLk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVHg1CjqLk8 Do you have any interesting video demos you've recorded or papers or articles you've written that you'd like to share about your own ideas for personal display servers that solve all the problems too? Or comments on any of these? Ben Shneiderman introduces Pie Menus developed by Don Hopkins at UMD Human Computer Interaction Lab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxkfqgAkgDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxkfqgAkgDc >University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab Pie Menu Demos. Introduction by Ben Shneiderman. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Pie menus developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Brad Myers introduces Just the Pie Menus from All the Widgets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOLS9I_tdKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOLS9I_tdKE >Pie menu demo excerpts from "All The Widgets" CHI'90 Special Issue #57 ACM SIGGRAPH Video Review. Including Doug Engelbart's NLS demo and the credits. Tape produced by and narrated by Brad Meyers. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Pie menus developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Brad Myers CMU course 05-440 / 05-640: Interaction Techniques (IxT). Intended for Undergraduates, Masters and PhD students! https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter/ >Don Hopkins was one of the original developers of Pie Menus, and helped contribute to their popularity in games. He published a frequently cited paper about pie menus at CHI'88 with John Raymond Callahan, Ben Shneiderman and Mark Weiser. He then developed and refined pie menus for many platforms and applications including window managers, the Emacs text editors, universal remote controls, TV guide browsers, web browsers, visual programming interfaces, SimCity, The Sims. These took advantage of many kinds of hardware including desktop, mobile, VR, OLPC, mouse, stylus and touch screens. He has published many free and open source software implementations of pie menus for X10, X11, NeWS, Tcl/TK, ScriptX, ActiveX, OpenLaszlo, Python, JavaScript, C#, and Unity3D. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter2019/schedule.html#donhopkins https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter2019/schedule... Video of Don Hopkins' presentation to Brad Myer's CMU IxT class: Pie Menus: Definition, Rules, and Future Directions: https://scs.hosted.panopto.com/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=f0600d9d-282e-4b83-a6f4-a9f2003ad407 https://scs.hosted.panopto.com/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=... An Empirical Comparison of Pie vs. Linear Menus (ACM SIGCHI'88): https://donhopkins.medium.com/an-empirical-comparison-of-pie-vs-linear-menus-466c6fdbba4b https://donhopkins.medium.com/an-empirical-comparison-of-pie... Pie Menus: A 30 Year Retrospective. By Don Hopkins, Ground Up Software, May 15, 2018. https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menus-936fed383ff1 https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menus-936fed383ff1 The Design and Implementation of Pie Menus: They’re Fast, Easy, and Self-Revealing. Originally published in Dr. Dobb’s Journal, Dec. 1991, cover story, user interface issue. https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-design-and-implementation-of-pie-menus-80db1e1b5293 https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-design-and-implementation-... NeWS Tab Window Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 >Demo of the Pie Menu Tab Window Manager for The NeWS Toolkit 2.0. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Browsing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZi4gUjaGAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZi4gUjaGAM >Demo of NeWS based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Authoring with UniPress Emacs on NeWS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU >Demo of UniPress Emacs based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. HyperTIES Discussions from Hacker News: https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hacker-news-937d156f0330 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac... PSIBER Space Deck Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM >Demo of the NeWS PSIBER Space Deck. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Developed and documented thanks to the support of John Gilmore and Julia Menapace. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Described in "The Shape of PSIBER Space: PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines". Micropolis Online (SimCity) Web Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snnqQSI0GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snnqQSI0GE >A demo of the open source Micropolis Online game (based on the original SimCity Classic source code from Maxis), running on a web server, written in C++ and Python, and displaying in a web browser, written in OpenLaszlo and JavaScript, running in the Flash player. Developed by Don Hopkins. Micropolis Web Demo 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHGfNlE8Os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHGfNlE8Os >Micropolis Web is the browser based version of Micropolis (open source SimCity), that uses WebAssembly, WebGL, and SvelteKit. Based on the original SimCity Classic code, designed by Will Wright, ported by Don Hopkins. This first demo shows an early version that runs the WebAssembly simulator and animates the tiles with WebGL, but most of the user interface is still a work in progress. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432832 >Simon Schneegan's "Kandu" cross platform pie menus, as well as his older "Fly-Pie" and "Gnome-Pie" projects, let you create and edit your own pie menus with a WYSIWYG drag-and-drop direct manipulation interface. [...] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44090952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44090952 >Here's an X11 window manager, with pie menus and tabbed windows, entirely written in object oriented NeWS PostScript, from around 1991: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432170 >Vertical tabs are better in some situations and for some users, horizontal tabs are better in other situations and for other users. So all users should be able to choose to place tabs along any side of any window, and change which side and what position any tab is at any time. Not just tabs for emacs frames or web browser windows, but for ALL windows including top level and internal application windows. And you should also be able to mix tabs from different apps in the same frame, of course. Why not? >I implemented tabbed window with pie menus for UniPress Emacs in 1988, and still miss them! Later in 1990 I developed several other versions of tabbed windows with pie menus for NeWS that let you manage any NeWS and X11 windows, and drag the tabs around to any edge. [...] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432449 >It bewilders me that any rational UI designer would be so arrogant as to make the unilateral unchangeable decision for all their users that they should only have tabs on one side, be it the top, bottom, left or right of the window. Why restrict users to using tabs on only one side and one side only? What's so special about that side, and bad about the other sides? What if the user is left handed, or has a tall monitor, or a wide monitor, or lots of windows, or only a few? >While you're at it, why not just remove all the arrow keys from the keyboard except one? Then users can argue over whether the left-arrow key is better than the up-arrow key, and users who don't like having only an up-arrow key can buy a keyboard with only a left-arrow key. >But all keyboards have all four arrow keys, so there are no arguments about which arrow is better: you just use whichever arrow you want, whenever you want. >Most people prefer to use all four arrows at different times for different purposes, and put their tabs along all four edges, too! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44173283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44173283 >In practice that's what you could do with HyperLook on NeWS: SimCity, Cellular Automata, and Happy Tool for HyperLook (nee HyperNeWS (nee GoodNeWS)) >HyperLook was like HyperCard for NeWS, with PostScript graphics and scripting plus networking. Here are three unique and wacky examples that plug together to show what HyperNeWS was all about, and where we could go in the future! https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-goodnews-99f411e58ce4 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-go... HyperLook SimCity Demo Transcript https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-simcity-demo-transcript-17f627eab14a https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-simcity-demo-transcr... >This is a transcript of a video taped demonstration of SimCity on HyperLook in NeWS. Discussion with Alan Kay about HyperLook and NeWS: https://donhopkins.medium.com/alan-kay-on-should-web-browsers-have-stuck-to-being-document-viewers-and-a-discussion-of-news-5cb92c7b3445 https://donhopkins.medium.com/alan-kay-on-should-web-browser... >Alan Kay on “Should web browsers have stuck to being document viewers?” and a discussion of Smalltalk, HyperCard, NeWS, and HyperLook https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22456831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22456831 >Thanks for asking! ;) I've put up some old demos on youtube, and made illustrated transcriptions of some, and written some papers and articles. Sorry the compression is so terrible on some of the videos. Here are some links: [...] Lots of old NeWS code: https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/ https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/ Including the NeWS Tape, a big collection of free NeWS software that I curated and distributed via Sun Users Group: https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-tape/ https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-tape/ And of course PizzaTool: https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-story-of-sun-microsystems-pizzatool-2a7992b4c797 https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-story-of-sun-microsystems-... NeWS PostScript PizzaTool Source Code: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.txt PizzaTool shipped with Solaris, and here's the manual entry I wrote: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.6.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.6.txt

This does not address anything from the article and is a (seemingly copy/pasted) generic tangent about X11.

by arp242 1y ago

This does not address anything from the article and is a (seemingly copy/pasted) generic tangent about X11.

If you'd read both the article and my post, you'd realize it does actually address the article. It's a quote from the chapter about X-Windows I wrote in the Unix Haters handbook in 1994. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook https://web.archive.org/web/20201120053257/http://www.simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20201120053257/http://www.simson... And a description of the screen spanning ruler app (or rather "Desk Accessory") that the Mac had around 1987 or so (I specifically remember Hugh showing it to me a few months before Black Monday). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_accessory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_accessory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987) Just like the article you apparently didn't read mentioned: >With my new knowledge, I also wrote an onscreen ruler using the shape extension. Somewhat tautological for measuring the two inch circle, but in the event anyone asks, I can now tell them my terminal line height is 1/8”, and yes, I measured. https://humungus.tedunangst.com/r/xtoys/v/tip/f/ruler.c https://humungus.tedunangst.com/r/xtoys/v/tip/f/ruler.c Now 38 years later, is there a ruler app for X-Windows that can span multiple screens yet? Or Wayland, even? Why don't you write one!

arp242 1y ago
[flagged]
- DonHopkins 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - arp242 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - Qwertious 1y ago
    >Somebody just ASKED me to post more information, and they were even so kind as to say "please", so I did. If you object to that, then there is a "next" link you can press to skip over it without wasting your time replying! If that's too difficult and your panties are still in a bunch about my posting replies to legitimate questions, then take it up with sprash for asking. Happy clicking and toxic whining! Oh shit, is that what the "next" button is for? TYVM, and I mean that unironically.
sprash 1y ago
> 1994 Apparently you have to be criticizing X11 for more than three decades now. Since you seem to know your stuff, could you please post a link to your git repository containing your personal display server that solves all the problems?
- linksnapzz 1y ago
  "..and yet, you participate in society...curious!"
- DonHopkins 1y ago
  Since they bought Sun Microsystems, Oracle now owns the rights to the NeWS source code, so unfortunately I'm not legally allowed to post the NeWS server source code on my Github page, although I spent many years unsuccessfully fighting to make NeWS free and evangelizing it to anyone who would listen, like RMS and my colleagues and customers at Sun: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/rms.news.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/rms.news.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-ooo-review.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-ooo-review... https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/questionaire.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/questionaire.tx... https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/grasshopper.msg.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/grasshopper.msg... https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/sevans.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/sevans.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/Explanation.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/Explanation.txt But since you asked so kindly and said "please", here are some youtube videos, articles, and presentations -- thank you so much for asking and expressing your interest in learning and reading my ideas and code, I'm deeply flattered and delighted to oblige your request! ;) You asked for it, you got it: Toyota! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVHg1CjqLk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVHg1CjqLk8 Do you have any interesting video demos you've recorded or papers or articles you've written that you'd like to share about your own ideas for personal display servers that solve all the problems too? Or comments on any of these? Ben Shneiderman introduces Pie Menus developed by Don Hopkins at UMD Human Computer Interaction Lab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxkfqgAkgDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxkfqgAkgDc >University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab Pie Menu Demos. Introduction by Ben Shneiderman. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Pie menus developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Brad Myers introduces Just the Pie Menus from All the Widgets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOLS9I_tdKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOLS9I_tdKE >Pie menu demo excerpts from "All The Widgets" CHI'90 Special Issue #57 ACM SIGGRAPH Video Review. Including Doug Engelbart's NLS demo and the credits. Tape produced by and narrated by Brad Meyers. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Pie menus developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Brad Myers CMU course 05-440 / 05-640: Interaction Techniques (IxT). Intended for Undergraduates, Masters and PhD students! https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter/ >Don Hopkins was one of the original developers of Pie Menus, and helped contribute to their popularity in games. He published a frequently cited paper about pie menus at CHI'88 with John Raymond Callahan, Ben Shneiderman and Mark Weiser. He then developed and refined pie menus for many platforms and applications including window managers, the Emacs text editors, universal remote controls, TV guide browsers, web browsers, visual programming interfaces, SimCity, The Sims. These took advantage of many kinds of hardware including desktop, mobile, VR, OLPC, mouse, stylus and touch screens. He has published many free and open source software implementations of pie menus for X10, X11, NeWS, Tcl/TK, ScriptX, ActiveX, OpenLaszlo, Python, JavaScript, C#, and Unity3D. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter2019/schedule.html#donhopkins https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05440inter2019/schedule... Video of Don Hopkins' presentation to Brad Myer's CMU IxT class: Pie Menus: Definition, Rules, and Future Directions: https://scs.hosted.panopto.com/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=f0600d9d-282e-4b83-a6f4-a9f2003ad407 https://scs.hosted.panopto.com/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=... An Empirical Comparison of Pie vs. Linear Menus (ACM SIGCHI'88): https://donhopkins.medium.com/an-empirical-comparison-of-pie-vs-linear-menus-466c6fdbba4b https://donhopkins.medium.com/an-empirical-comparison-of-pie... Pie Menus: A 30 Year Retrospective. By Don Hopkins, Ground Up Software, May 15, 2018. https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menus-936fed383ff1 https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menus-936fed383ff1 The Design and Implementation of Pie Menus: They’re Fast, Easy, and Self-Revealing. Originally published in Dr. Dobb’s Journal, Dec. 1991, cover story, user interface issue. https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-design-and-implementation-of-pie-menus-80db1e1b5293 https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-design-and-implementation-... NeWS Tab Window Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 >Demo of the Pie Menu Tab Window Manager for The NeWS Toolkit 2.0. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Browsing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZi4gUjaGAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZi4gUjaGAM >Demo of NeWS based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Authoring with UniPress Emacs on NeWS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU >Demo of UniPress Emacs based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. HyperTIES Discussions from Hacker News: https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hacker-news-937d156f0330 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac... PSIBER Space Deck Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM >Demo of the NeWS PSIBER Space Deck. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Developed and documented thanks to the support of John Gilmore and Julia Menapace. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Described in "The Shape of PSIBER Space: PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines". Micropolis Online (SimCity) Web Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snnqQSI0GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snnqQSI0GE >A demo of the open source Micropolis Online game (based on the original SimCity Classic source code from Maxis), running on a web server, written in C++ and Python, and displaying in a web browser, written in OpenLaszlo and JavaScript, running in the Flash player. Developed by Don Hopkins. Micropolis Web Demo 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHGfNlE8Os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHGfNlE8Os >Micropolis Web is the browser based version of Micropolis (open source SimCity), that uses WebAssembly, WebGL, and SvelteKit. Based on the original SimCity Classic code, designed by Will Wright, ported by Don Hopkins. This first demo shows an early version that runs the WebAssembly simulator and animates the tiles with WebGL, but most of the user interface is still a work in progress. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432832 >Simon Schneegan's "Kandu" cross platform pie menus, as well as his older "Fly-Pie" and "Gnome-Pie" projects, let you create and edit your own pie menus with a WYSIWYG drag-and-drop direct manipulation interface. [...] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44090952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44090952 >Here's an X11 window manager, with pie menus and tabbed windows, entirely written in object oriented NeWS PostScript, from around 1991: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432170 >Vertical tabs are better in some situations and for some users, horizontal tabs are better in other situations and for other users. So all users should be able to choose to place tabs along any side of any window, and change which side and what position any tab is at any time. Not just tabs for emacs frames or web browser windows, but for ALL windows including top level and internal application windows. And you should also be able to mix tabs from different apps in the same frame, of course. Why not? >I implemented tabbed window with pie menus for UniPress Emacs in 1988, and still miss them! Later in 1990 I developed several other versions of tabbed windows with pie menus for NeWS that let you manage any NeWS and X11 windows, and drag the tabs around to any edge. [...] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39432449 >It bewilders me that any rational UI designer would be so arrogant as to make the unilateral unchangeable decision for all their users that they should only have tabs on one side, be it the top, bottom, left or right of the window. Why restrict users to using tabs on only one side and one side only? What's so special about that side, and bad about the other sides? What if the user is left handed, or has a tall monitor, or a wide monitor, or lots of windows, or only a few? >While you're at it, why not just remove all the arrow keys from the keyboard except one? Then users can argue over whether the left-arrow key is better than the up-arrow key, and users who don't like having only an up-arrow key can buy a keyboard with only a left-arrow key. >But all keyboards have all four arrow keys, so there are no arguments about which arrow is better: you just use whichever arrow you want, whenever you want. >Most people prefer to use all four arrows at different times for different purposes, and put their tabs along all four edges, too! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44173283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44173283 >In practice that's what you could do with HyperLook on NeWS: SimCity, Cellular Automata, and Happy Tool for HyperLook (nee HyperNeWS (nee GoodNeWS)) >HyperLook was like HyperCard for NeWS, with PostScript graphics and scripting plus networking. Here are three unique and wacky examples that plug together to show what HyperNeWS was all about, and where we could go in the future! https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-goodnews-99f411e58ce4 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-go... HyperLook SimCity Demo Transcript https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-simcity-demo-transcript-17f627eab14a https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-simcity-demo-transcr... >This is a transcript of a video taped demonstration of SimCity on HyperLook in NeWS. Discussion with Alan Kay about HyperLook and NeWS: https://donhopkins.medium.com/alan-kay-on-should-web-browsers-have-stuck-to-being-document-viewers-and-a-discussion-of-news-5cb92c7b3445 https://donhopkins.medium.com/alan-kay-on-should-web-browser... >Alan Kay on “Should web browsers have stuck to being document viewers?” and a discussion of Smalltalk, HyperCard, NeWS, and HyperLook https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22456831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22456831 >Thanks for asking! ;) I've put up some old demos on youtube, and made illustrated transcriptions of some, and written some papers and articles. Sorry the compression is so terrible on some of the videos. Here are some links: [...] Lots of old NeWS code: https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/ https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/ Including the NeWS Tape, a big collection of free NeWS software that I curated and distributed via Sun Users Group: https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-tape/ https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/news-tape/ And of course PizzaTool: https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-story-of-sun-microsystems-pizzatool-2a7992b4c797 https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-story-of-sun-microsystems-... NeWS PostScript PizzaTool Source Code: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.txt PizzaTool shipped with Solaris, and here's the manual entry I wrote: https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.6.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/pizzatool.6.txt