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Interestingly, as an American, literally the only time I've had my luggage poked through by an armed guard was in a social democracy in Europe.

freeone3000 1y ago
The only time that you’ve known of! Fly with locked luggage and see how often that lock stays intact.
- kube-system 1y ago
  TSA removes locks with bolt cutters, they don't shoot them off.
  - freeone3000 1y ago
    … well, yes, but they are armed guards and they are searching your luggage. I feel that’s more relevant than the exact method of lock removal.
    - kube-system 1y ago
      No, the TSA security officers who are inspecting passengers and their luggage do not have arrest powers and are not armed. If you are doing something illegal, they call the police, and the police arrest you.
      - freeone3000 1y ago
        Does your need to be technically correct outweigh your need to understand an argument?
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        Freedom2 1y ago
        To be fair, you are on HackerNews.
        kube-system 1y ago
        The adjective "armed" in my topmost comment wasn't a technicality, it was the entire point of the anecdote. Do you really think I was saying that the TSA never searches luggage? Obviously the TSA searches a lot of luggage, the thing they don't do is carry guns while doing so.
        freeone3000 1y ago
        Right, they have to call the guy with a gun over. Is the problem the luggage search, as in, the invasion of privacy? The explicit threat of force in the absence of immediate compliance? The assumption of guilt for the general populace? The ever-present security state continually looking to oppress? Or is it “huh europe is weird they give their TSA agents guns instead of having the transport security and also airport police?”
        kube-system 1y ago
        It's just an anecdote. I wasn't trying to draw any philosophical conclusions from it.
        brewdad 1y ago
        Facts matter and yours are wrong.
smsm42 1y ago
There's some inspection in practically every transport hub when I travel. While I traveled internationally the most strict was in Germany. I really don't mind a lot - there are good reasons to be careful - but they had guards in full military gear and with automatic weapons (usually it's handguns and plain uniforms) which looked pretty intimidating, and that was the only time I had to actually turn on my laptop to show it's a working laptop and not some kind of trick. Maybe showing how strict and tough they are was the point. The worst inspectors I had were in London. They were exceedingly slow and had very unpleasant manners. Maybe just my luck. Never had any real problems though - worst thing they got a look on my underpants and power connectors, and sent me on my way.
- kube-system 1y ago
  Yeah, of course most places inspect luggage, but here in the US luggage inspection is done mostly by staff who are not police/military.
  - smsm42 1y ago
    There are many more armed services in the US than police/military. Dept. of Education has a SWAT team. Amtrak has armed force. US Park service has one. Really, there are so many of them.
    - kube-system 1y ago
      Those are all examples of police agencies with police powers. This is in contrast to TSA officers screening your luggage, who have no police powers and are not police. To add another example to your list -- the TSA also has their own police (e.g. Federal Air Marshal Service), but they don't work the line screening your baggage.
      - smsm42 1y ago
        They are not police either. They are just armed men at government service. TSA inspectors in particular are not armed, but that's immaterial - there are other armed government workers around that could be used if needed. Police is only a tiny part of government's armed forces. It is most visible because everybody seen the police drive around, but most people never saw DeptEd SWAT team, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of those exist and are around, just a bit out of sight.
jccalhoun 1y ago
Conversely, as an American, the only time I've had my luggage poked through was coming back into the USA. I don't remember if they were armed though.

freeone3000 1y ago

The only time that you’ve known of! Fly with locked luggage and see how often that lock stays intact.

kube-system 1y ago
TSA removes locks with bolt cutters, they don't shoot them off.
- freeone3000 1y ago
  … well, yes, but they are armed guards and they are searching your luggage. I feel that’s more relevant than the exact method of lock removal.
  - kube-system 1y ago
    No, the TSA security officers who are inspecting passengers and their luggage do not have arrest powers and are not armed. If you are doing something illegal, they call the police, and the police arrest you.
    - freeone3000 1y ago
      Does your need to be technically correct outweigh your need to understand an argument?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - Freedom2 1y ago
        To be fair, you are on HackerNews.
      - kube-system 1y ago
        The adjective "armed" in my topmost comment wasn't a technicality, it was the entire point of the anecdote. Do you really think I was saying that the TSA never searches luggage? Obviously the TSA searches a lot of luggage, the thing they don't do is carry guns while doing so.
        freeone3000 1y ago
        Right, they have to call the guy with a gun over. Is the problem the luggage search, as in, the invasion of privacy? The explicit threat of force in the absence of immediate compliance? The assumption of guilt for the general populace? The ever-present security state continually looking to oppress? Or is it “huh europe is weird they give their TSA agents guns instead of having the transport security and also airport police?”
        kube-system 1y ago
        It's just an anecdote. I wasn't trying to draw any philosophical conclusions from it.
      - brewdad 1y ago
        Facts matter and yours are wrong.

smsm42 1y ago

There's some inspection in practically every transport hub when I travel. While I traveled internationally the most strict was in Germany. I really don't mind a lot - there are good reasons to be careful - but they had guards in full military gear and with automatic weapons (usually it's handguns and plain uniforms) which looked pretty intimidating, and that was the only time I had to actually turn on my laptop to show it's a working laptop and not some kind of trick. Maybe showing how strict and tough they are was the point. The worst inspectors I had were in London. They were exceedingly slow and had very unpleasant manners. Maybe just my luck. Never had any real problems though - worst thing they got a look on my underpants and power connectors, and sent me on my way.

kube-system 1y ago
Yeah, of course most places inspect luggage, but here in the US luggage inspection is done mostly by staff who are not police/military.
- smsm42 1y ago
  There are many more armed services in the US than police/military. Dept. of Education has a SWAT team. Amtrak has armed force. US Park service has one. Really, there are so many of them.
  - kube-system 1y ago
    Those are all examples of police agencies with police powers. This is in contrast to TSA officers screening your luggage, who have no police powers and are not police. To add another example to your list -- the TSA also has their own police (e.g. Federal Air Marshal Service), but they don't work the line screening your baggage.
    - smsm42 1y ago
      They are not police either. They are just armed men at government service. TSA inspectors in particular are not armed, but that's immaterial - there are other armed government workers around that could be used if needed. Police is only a tiny part of government's armed forces. It is most visible because everybody seen the police drive around, but most people never saw DeptEd SWAT team, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of those exist and are around, just a bit out of sight.

jccalhoun 1y ago

Conversely, as an American, the only time I've had my luggage poked through was coming back into the USA. I don't remember if they were armed though.