4 ms·

I wonder since a while what makes Light Table definitely better than emacs? edit: better or different.

by FredBrach 14y ago

dmix 14y ago
It embraces this concept: http://vimeo.com/36579366 http://vimeo.com/36579366
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - dmix 14y ago
    All ideas are evolutions (or sometimes rehashes) of old ideas. It's a part of progress.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
      - ibdknox 14y ago
        Light Table will be released open source under the GPL - just like emacs.
        t_hozumi 14y ago
        Have you considered LGPL or dual license? GPLv3 will restrict even your own future work involved the product.
        simulate 14y ago
        I believe they must be planning on using using a dual-license. Quoting, "the core of Light Table be open sourced once it is launched, while some of the plugins may remained closed source." Source: http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/15/light-tables-numbers/ http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/15/light-tables-numbers...
        ibdknox 14y ago
        Correct, it'll be dual licensed.
      - dmix 14y ago
        Having good competition is a necessary part of progress. You can always stick with emacs or the (entirely) OSS alternatives.
- FredBrach 14y ago
  Hey thanx, it's a nice talk for sure :)
batista 14y ago
Not based on a 30 year old codebase designed in and for an era before color displays, mice, touchpads, graphics and unicode? Not using a god awful Lisp dialect (Emacs Lisp) at it's base? Having more thought, design, and hindsight poured into the UI than the pile of hacks and over the year additions that drive Emacs? Having things more integrated than independent elisp plugins that hardly know each other and don't really collaborate? Rethinking the keyboard shortcut design?
- mickeyp 14y ago
  Just a few clarifications here... > Not based on a 30 year old codebase designed in and for an era before color displays, mice, touchpads, graphics and unicode? * That codebase also runs on: variety of UNIX/Linux distros and their terminal emulators; MS-DOS; Windows; etc. * Emacs supports mice: both scrolling; clickable hyperlinks; drag regions; buttons and other widgets. > Not using a god awful Lisp dialect (Emacs Lisp) at it's base? * Touchpads? Do you mean tablets or laptop touchpads? That's a HID device and works the same as a mouse does... * Graphics? Yes, Emacs supports graphics and can indeed render PDFs/LaTeX documents using external programs; native image support is usually compiled into Emacs. * Unicode? Emacs has more complete unicode support than you'll find in any other editor out there. What editor let's you open up a subprocess to a commandline tool and have it set such that stdin is treated as UTF-8, but stdout is Cyrillic? > Having more thought, design, and hindsight poured into the UI than the pile of hacks and over the year additions that drive Emacs? * Emacs-Lisp isn't great, but Emacs and elisp is the closest most people will ever get to the spirit of a Lisp Machine. Elisp isn't perfect, but for many it gets the job done. It is also incredibly flexible and its "naff" implementation with dynamic scoping improves the spirit of hacking in Emacs by encouraging people to hook, tweak and inject into Emacs's core. > Having more thought, design, and hindsight poured into the UI than the pile of hacks and over the year additions that drive Emacs? > Having things more integrated than independent elisp plugins that hardly know each other and don't really collaborate? * Design could be a lot better, but that's what happens when you support the same product for a long long period of time. I know Emacs/Vim will be around in 10 years; will Light Table? Will TextMate? * Most plugins do integrate quite well actually into major modes (the programming modes) such as: Eldoc mode, find-function mode, TAGS support, Imenu, etc. -- it's not perfect, but then again: nothing is? > Rethinking the keyboard shortcut design? * That's just blasphemy. You should observe an experience Emacs guy using Emacs and I think you'll find they're more than capable of accomplishing what they want in few keystrokes. It's different from Vim, yes, but then Emacs isn't really modal.

I wonder since a while what makes Light Table definitely better than emacs? edit: better or different.

dmix 14y ago

It embraces this concept: http://vimeo.com/36579366 http://vimeo.com/36579366

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- dmix 14y ago
  All ideas are evolutions (or sometimes rehashes) of old ideas. It's a part of progress.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
    - ibdknox 14y ago
      Light Table will be released open source under the GPL - just like emacs.
      - t_hozumi 14y ago
        Have you considered LGPL or dual license? GPLv3 will restrict even your own future work involved the product.
        simulate 14y ago
        I believe they must be planning on using using a dual-license. Quoting, "the core of Light Table be open sourced once it is launched, while some of the plugins may remained closed source." Source: http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/15/light-tables-numbers/ http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/15/light-tables-numbers...
        ibdknox 14y ago
        Correct, it'll be dual licensed.
    - dmix 14y ago
      Having good competition is a necessary part of progress. You can always stick with emacs or the (entirely) OSS alternatives.
FredBrach 14y ago
Hey thanx, it's a nice talk for sure :)

batista 14y ago

Not based on a 30 year old codebase designed in and for an era before color displays, mice, touchpads, graphics and unicode? Not using a god awful Lisp dialect (Emacs Lisp) at it's base? Having more thought, design, and hindsight poured into the UI than the pile of hacks and over the year additions that drive Emacs? Having things more integrated than independent elisp plugins that hardly know each other and don't really collaborate? Rethinking the keyboard shortcut design?

mickeyp 14y ago
Just a few clarifications here... > Not based on a 30 year old codebase designed in and for an era before color displays, mice, touchpads, graphics and unicode? * That codebase also runs on: variety of UNIX/Linux distros and their terminal emulators; MS-DOS; Windows; etc. * Emacs supports mice: both scrolling; clickable hyperlinks; drag regions; buttons and other widgets. > Not using a god awful Lisp dialect (Emacs Lisp) at it's base? * Touchpads? Do you mean tablets or laptop touchpads? That's a HID device and works the same as a mouse does... * Graphics? Yes, Emacs supports graphics and can indeed render PDFs/LaTeX documents using external programs; native image support is usually compiled into Emacs. * Unicode? Emacs has more complete unicode support than you'll find in any other editor out there. What editor let's you open up a subprocess to a commandline tool and have it set such that stdin is treated as UTF-8, but stdout is Cyrillic? > Having more thought, design, and hindsight poured into the UI than the pile of hacks and over the year additions that drive Emacs? * Emacs-Lisp isn't great, but Emacs and elisp is the closest most people will ever get to the spirit of a Lisp Machine. Elisp isn't perfect, but for many it gets the job done. It is also incredibly flexible and its "naff" implementation with dynamic scoping improves the spirit of hacking in Emacs by encouraging people to hook, tweak and inject into Emacs's core. > Having more thought, design, and hindsight poured into the UI than the pile of hacks and over the year additions that drive Emacs? > Having things more integrated than independent elisp plugins that hardly know each other and don't really collaborate? * Design could be a lot better, but that's what happens when you support the same product for a long long period of time. I know Emacs/Vim will be around in 10 years; will Light Table? Will TextMate? * Most plugins do integrate quite well actually into major modes (the programming modes) such as: Eldoc mode, find-function mode, TAGS support, Imenu, etc. -- it's not perfect, but then again: nothing is? > Rethinking the keyboard shortcut design? * That's just blasphemy. You should observe an experience Emacs guy using Emacs and I think you'll find they're more than capable of accomplishing what they want in few keystrokes. It's different from Vim, yes, but then Emacs isn't really modal.