3 ms·

There are advertisements on the sides of trucks. Better question is why you are willing to dismiss the wile e coyote failure demonstration.

aeternum 1y ago
The wile e cayote failure was using tesla's cruise control rather than FSD. Binocular vision is sufficient. Lidar will likely be outlawed anyway as it burns your retina. Dare you to put your eye (or cellphone camera) next to a waymo sensor for 10 sec and see what happens.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  FSD catapults families into highway dividers, I'm pretty sure LIDAR will be fine
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  Virtually all LIDARs are class 1 devices, safe for human eyes to look at. Do you have any reason to believe Waymo LIDARs aren't class 1?
  - aeternum 1y ago
    The rapid rotation and your blink reflex is apparently what makes it class 1 (supposedly). I don't see how a blink occurs if it isn't in visible spectrum. The science around the safety is very shaky, many tests look at only retina and not cornea damage. https://www.laserfocusworld.com/blogs/article/14040682/safety-questions-raised-about-1550-nm-lidar https://www.laserfocusworld.com/blogs/article/14040682/safet... Many of the class 1 lidars do damage camera sensors, is your eye really that much more resilient?
    - AlotOfReading 1y ago
      The damage at those wavelengths is just overheating. Your eyes are mainly water with its absurdly high heat capacity compared to pretty much anything in an image sensor. I'd expect eyes to be much more resilient in short duration, high intensity exposures and significantly better at long duration, low intensity exposures. LIDARs have been shifting towards short duration exposures to get higher intensities (for range) in recent years, simply to stay under the class 1 limits.
      - aeternum 1y ago
        Heat damage doesn't make it safe, eyes are very sensitive to heat and while the cornea provides some protection, not everyone has a thick cornea due to surgery, and there is also evidence that heating the cornea causes cataracts. The short exposure is putting a lot of faith in these device manufacturers. How do they guarantee short duration, are you confident that each manufacturer has sufficient electronics to stop the laser if the spinning slows slightly due to dirt, low power or a crash? Should the exposure limits be the same during day vs. night when your pupils are dilated?
- gamblor956 1y ago
  LIDAR uses wavelengths that are transparent to the receptors in the human eye (but not to the sensors in many brand of cameras). So, safe for human eyes but deadly for a camera.
- Veserv 1y ago
  It is funny you should say that binocular vision is sufficient when Tesla Vision hardware does not have binocular vision. HW3 has three front-facing cameras that are not only too close together to provide binocular vision with adequate disparity, but also have different fixed focal lengths making them unable to establish binocular focus even if they were far enough apart [1]. HW4 has two front-facing cameras with the same limitations. This is of course ignoring the fact that humans with visual acuity comparable to the HW3 cameras would almost be legally blind and not meet minimum vision requirements to operate a motor vehicle in, I believe, every state. HW4 cameras are better and you would only be unable to meet minimum vision requirements to operate a motor vehicle in most states, including California and Texas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot_hardware#Tesla_Vision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot_hardware#Tesla...

aeternum 1y ago

The wile e cayote failure was using tesla's cruise control rather than FSD. Binocular vision is sufficient. Lidar will likely be outlawed anyway as it burns your retina. Dare you to put your eye (or cellphone camera) next to a waymo sensor for 10 sec and see what happens.

sorcerer-mar 1y ago
FSD catapults families into highway dividers, I'm pretty sure LIDAR will be fine
AlotOfReading 1y ago
Virtually all LIDARs are class 1 devices, safe for human eyes to look at. Do you have any reason to believe Waymo LIDARs aren't class 1?
- aeternum 1y ago
  The rapid rotation and your blink reflex is apparently what makes it class 1 (supposedly). I don't see how a blink occurs if it isn't in visible spectrum. The science around the safety is very shaky, many tests look at only retina and not cornea damage. https://www.laserfocusworld.com/blogs/article/14040682/safety-questions-raised-about-1550-nm-lidar https://www.laserfocusworld.com/blogs/article/14040682/safet... Many of the class 1 lidars do damage camera sensors, is your eye really that much more resilient?
  - AlotOfReading 1y ago
    The damage at those wavelengths is just overheating. Your eyes are mainly water with its absurdly high heat capacity compared to pretty much anything in an image sensor. I'd expect eyes to be much more resilient in short duration, high intensity exposures and significantly better at long duration, low intensity exposures. LIDARs have been shifting towards short duration exposures to get higher intensities (for range) in recent years, simply to stay under the class 1 limits.
    - aeternum 1y ago
      Heat damage doesn't make it safe, eyes are very sensitive to heat and while the cornea provides some protection, not everyone has a thick cornea due to surgery, and there is also evidence that heating the cornea causes cataracts. The short exposure is putting a lot of faith in these device manufacturers. How do they guarantee short duration, are you confident that each manufacturer has sufficient electronics to stop the laser if the spinning slows slightly due to dirt, low power or a crash? Should the exposure limits be the same during day vs. night when your pupils are dilated?
gamblor956 1y ago
LIDAR uses wavelengths that are transparent to the receptors in the human eye (but not to the sensors in many brand of cameras). So, safe for human eyes but deadly for a camera.
Veserv 1y ago
It is funny you should say that binocular vision is sufficient when Tesla Vision hardware does not have binocular vision. HW3 has three front-facing cameras that are not only too close together to provide binocular vision with adequate disparity, but also have different fixed focal lengths making them unable to establish binocular focus even if they were far enough apart [1]. HW4 has two front-facing cameras with the same limitations. This is of course ignoring the fact that humans with visual acuity comparable to the HW3 cameras would almost be legally blind and not meet minimum vision requirements to operate a motor vehicle in, I believe, every state. HW4 cameras are better and you would only be unable to meet minimum vision requirements to operate a motor vehicle in most states, including California and Texas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot_hardware#Tesla_Vision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot_hardware#Tesla...