3 ms·

FWIW, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY. I know about both urban and suburban living. I now live in Columbia, MD: a suburb from the late '60s planned with high ideals.

FWIW, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY. I know about both urban and suburban living. I now live in Columbia, MD: a suburb from the late '60s planned with high ideals. My three children each have their own room. They can ride their bicycles on our sleepy street without having to constantly worry about reckless drivers. They can explore the walking trails and wooded areas our community maintains. They can play baseball in one of the nearby fields without having to worry about breaking a car window in doing so. My wife has a large crafting area. I have an office. We have a home theater. We have a workshop in our garage. We have a large sunroom which opens to a large deck suitable for entertaining many friends at once. Getting even a fraction of what I described above in a city would cost a fortune.

9rx 1y ago
The benefits of living in the country are obvious. And since the land provides income itself, the extra cost of transportation one has to assume to live in the country is well offset anyway. Its the weird middle ground that has all of the downsides of the country and all of the downsides of the city all packed into one that we're talking about.
- acuozzo 1y ago
  > And since the land provides income itself Hardly. Agriculture is hard work and not at all profitable unless the operation is at scale.
  - 9rx 1y ago
    > Agriculture is hard work and not at all profitable unless the operation is at scale. You seem a bit confused. While that is more or less true for the farmer, it is that way because the landlord usually takes most of the profit. As is to be expected. They hold all the cards. You can't farm without land. But given that in this scenario you are the landlord, not the one doing the work... The key to farm profitability is to own your own land free and clear. But, of course, unless you have a high paying job doing something else instead of farming that's really hard to pull off, so most farmers end up renting (either to a landlord directly, or renting money from a lender). That's when you need scale to make up for the vast majority of the profit going to someone else.
- Whoppertime 1y ago
  Some people really just want a back yard with a white picket fence their kids can play in
  - 9rx 1y ago
    Sure, but outside of where that backyard is wanted to be hundreds of acres, then there is the density necessary to introduce amenities like jobs, healthcare, shopping, etc. alongside the backyard. At which point you no longer need transportation as you have everything you need right there. But what happens in the places we're talking about is that the people accept a small backyard in order to keep everything close, but also work to ensure that amenities aren't welcome, only allowing other houses to be close. So you get all the downsides of the city, having to trip over your annoying neighbours, but also the downsides of living in the country, having to waste large amounts of time driving to do anything. What do people see in these strange middle places?
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      > What do people see in these strange middle places? Not sharing a wall or ceiling with other people is great actually I am constantly told that dense housing "built right" is quiet and peaceful and you never hear your neighbors through the walls, but my experience in apartments in my 20s was not like that I constantly had neighbours that would play loud music at all hours, or get into fights with their partners or otherwise just be extremely disruptive and stressful to share a building with I'll take the trade of having to drive a couple more minutes to get to a store if it means I never have to hear my neighbours having loud sex through the walls again at 2am when I'm trying to sleep
      - 9rx 1y ago
        You've made a great case for living in the country, but not for the weird middle places.
        bluefirebrand 1y ago

9rx 1y ago

The benefits of living in the country are obvious. And since the land provides income itself, the extra cost of transportation one has to assume to live in the country is well offset anyway. Its the weird middle ground that has all of the downsides of the country and all of the downsides of the city all packed into one that we're talking about.

acuozzo 1y ago
> And since the land provides income itself Hardly. Agriculture is hard work and not at all profitable unless the operation is at scale.
- 9rx 1y ago
  > Agriculture is hard work and not at all profitable unless the operation is at scale. You seem a bit confused. While that is more or less true for the farmer, it is that way because the landlord usually takes most of the profit. As is to be expected. They hold all the cards. You can't farm without land. But given that in this scenario you are the landlord, not the one doing the work... The key to farm profitability is to own your own land free and clear. But, of course, unless you have a high paying job doing something else instead of farming that's really hard to pull off, so most farmers end up renting (either to a landlord directly, or renting money from a lender). That's when you need scale to make up for the vast majority of the profit going to someone else.
Whoppertime 1y ago
Some people really just want a back yard with a white picket fence their kids can play in
- 9rx 1y ago
  Sure, but outside of where that backyard is wanted to be hundreds of acres, then there is the density necessary to introduce amenities like jobs, healthcare, shopping, etc. alongside the backyard. At which point you no longer need transportation as you have everything you need right there. But what happens in the places we're talking about is that the people accept a small backyard in order to keep everything close, but also work to ensure that amenities aren't welcome, only allowing other houses to be close. So you get all the downsides of the city, having to trip over your annoying neighbours, but also the downsides of living in the country, having to waste large amounts of time driving to do anything. What do people see in these strange middle places?
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    > What do people see in these strange middle places? Not sharing a wall or ceiling with other people is great actually I am constantly told that dense housing "built right" is quiet and peaceful and you never hear your neighbors through the walls, but my experience in apartments in my 20s was not like that I constantly had neighbours that would play loud music at all hours, or get into fights with their partners or otherwise just be extremely disruptive and stressful to share a building with I'll take the trade of having to drive a couple more minutes to get to a store if it means I never have to hear my neighbours having loud sex through the walls again at 2am when I'm trying to sleep
    - 9rx 1y ago
      You've made a great case for living in the country, but not for the weird middle places.
      - bluefirebrand 1y ago