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This seems demonstrably false, e.g. GFW of China, and similar cases of effectively the entire country being under surveillance: https://www.statista.com/statist

by f_devd 1y ago

This seems demonstrably false, e.g. GFW of China, and similar cases of effectively the entire country being under surveillance: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290708/top-surveilled-countries-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290708/top-surveilled-c...

thedevilslawyer 1y ago
I mean if you have to give that as the only example, then GP's point stands very strong.
- f_devd 1y ago
  It's really not worth my time finding the research for every single fallacious claim made; the Netherlands is not in the top 10 for physical or digital surveillance[0], nor is it likely get close to China or USA even if they wanted[1] [0]: https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveilled-countries/ https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveille... [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2020/10/06/eu-court-limits-government-bulk-surveillance/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2020/10/06/eu-co...
bgwalter 1y ago
The Netherlands essentially has pre-crime units: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/01/smart-cities-data-privacy-eindhoven-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/01/smart-cities-... The city also keeps track of the number of young people hanging out in the streets, their age group, whether they know each other, the atmosphere and whether or not they cause a nuisance. Special enforcement officers keep track of this information through mobile devices. It calls this process “targeted and innovative supervision”. Other council documents mention the prediction of school drop-outs, the prediction of poverty and the monitoring of “the health of certain groups” with the aim of “intervening faster”.
- f_devd 1y ago
  Except it's not actually being used anymore [0] with the original operations, scope and data all being documented publicly. That's the downside of referencing 7 year old articles. [0]: https://algoritmes.overheid.nl/en/algoritme/gm0344/78136377/hotspot-tackling-petty-crime https://algoritmes.overheid.nl/en/algoritme/gm0344/78136377/...

by f_devd 1y ago

thedevilslawyer 1y ago

I mean if you have to give that as the only example, then GP's point stands very strong.

f_devd 1y ago
It's really not worth my time finding the research for every single fallacious claim made; the Netherlands is not in the top 10 for physical or digital surveillance[0], nor is it likely get close to China or USA even if they wanted[1] [0]: https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveilled-countries/ https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveille... [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2020/10/06/eu-court-limits-government-bulk-surveillance/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2020/10/06/eu-co...

bgwalter 1y ago

The Netherlands essentially has pre-crime units: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/01/smart-cities-data-privacy-eindhoven-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/01/smart-cities-... The city also keeps track of the number of young people hanging out in the streets, their age group, whether they know each other, the atmosphere and whether or not they cause a nuisance. Special enforcement officers keep track of this information through mobile devices. It calls this process “targeted and innovative supervision”. Other council documents mention the prediction of school drop-outs, the prediction of poverty and the monitoring of “the health of certain groups” with the aim of “intervening faster”.

f_devd 1y ago
Except it's not actually being used anymore [0] with the original operations, scope and data all being documented publicly. That's the downside of referencing 7 year old articles. [0]: https://algoritmes.overheid.nl/en/algoritme/gm0344/78136377/hotspot-tackling-petty-crime https://algoritmes.overheid.nl/en/algoritme/gm0344/78136377/...