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There is no “system.” It’s all just people making choices. My wife puts straws in the dishwasher to reuse them. She grew up in America the same as everyone else

There is no “system.” It’s all just people making choices. My wife puts straws in the dishwasher to reuse them. She grew up in America the same as everyone else.

lm28469 1y ago
> It’s all just people making choices. Yeah sure... and some people get together and make choices that impact other people ability to make choices, it really isn't rocket science. If you think Zuckerbeg spending hundreds of millions a year to get the top XXX behavioural scientists to work on how to milk your attention span has the same impact as "my wife puts the straw in the washing machine to reuse them" I have bad news for you idk how you call lobbies spending literal billions every year to make you think "cars are freedom", "debt is wealth", &c.
LinXitoW 1y ago
There's no system the same way there's no Facebook, just some databases and servers. Or there's no Java language, it's all just UTF-8 characters. Or there's no government, there's just people voting for other people. Or there's no society, it's all just fancy apes existing and making decisions. It's quite frankly ludicrous to be a software engineer and pretend systems don't arise from "individual" "independent" elements.
- 9rx 1y ago
  > Or there's no Java language, it's all just UTF-8 characters. Some programming languages explicitly require UTF-8 in the language specification. Java is not one of them.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    As of Java 18, it is: https://openjdk.org/jeps/400 https://openjdk.org/jeps/400
    - 9rx 1y ago
      That's not what your link says: The Java language allows source code to express Unicode characters in a UTF-16 encoding, and this is unaffected by the choice of UTF-8 for the default charset. Perhaps you pasted the wrong one by mistake? Not that such a change to the language for future code, even if only hypothetical, would bear any difference to this discussion anyway as legacy Java code encoded in other charsets is still Java code.
      - lxgr 1y ago
        Just one sentence after the one you quoted: > However, the javac compiler is affected because it assumes that .java source files are encoded with the default charset, unless configured otherwise by the -encoding option. Interestingly, in Windows, Java programs were supposedly encoded in CP-1252 before this...? > In JDK 17 and earlier, the default charset is determined when the Java runtime starts. On macOS, it is UTF-8 except in the POSIX C locale. On other operating systems, it depends upon the user's locale and the default encoding, e.g., on Windows, it is a codepage-based charset such as windows-1252 or windows-31j.
        9rx 1y ago
        1. javac is an implementation, not a specification. 2. As noted in the very quote provided, said particular implementation accepts various encodings; naturally, as the language allows various encodings. That is quite unlike the languages that specify that anything other than UTF-8 is invalid code.
- rayiner 1y ago
  As a former engineer, I would say a “system” is designed as a whole, like all of the things you mentioned (but unlike society). If we are talking about the interactions between separately designed things—e.g. various autonomous vehicles designed by different companies—then we’d talk about “emergent behaviors,” not “systems.”
RankingMember 1y ago
The problem is some of us have way more weight to throw around than others, so in some cases one of those "people making choices" has as much impact as millions of people. As a side-note, putting straws in the dishwasher doesn't do a very good job of cleaning the insides of them. Unfortunately, you've gotta faff with those little brushes.
etblg 1y ago
How does she prevent them from falling through the holes and hitting the heating element at the bottom? Does she throw them in the cutlery basket? Wouldn't it be light enough to fly around inside the dishwasher and land somewhere undesired?
- rayiner 1y ago
  She puts them in the cutlery basket.
hoseja 1y ago
Do you think the choanoflagellate making up your fingertip knows there is a system.

There is no “system.” It’s all just people making choices. My wife puts straws in the dishwasher to reuse them. She grew up in America the same as everyone else.

lm28469 1y ago

> It’s all just people making choices. Yeah sure... and some people get together and make choices that impact other people ability to make choices, it really isn't rocket science. If you think Zuckerbeg spending hundreds of millions a year to get the top XXX behavioural scientists to work on how to milk your attention span has the same impact as "my wife puts the straw in the washing machine to reuse them" I have bad news for you idk how you call lobbies spending literal billions every year to make you think "cars are freedom", "debt is wealth", &c.

LinXitoW 1y ago

There's no system the same way there's no Facebook, just some databases and servers. Or there's no Java language, it's all just UTF-8 characters. Or there's no government, there's just people voting for other people. Or there's no society, it's all just fancy apes existing and making decisions. It's quite frankly ludicrous to be a software engineer and pretend systems don't arise from "individual" "independent" elements.

9rx 1y ago
> Or there's no Java language, it's all just UTF-8 characters. Some programming languages explicitly require UTF-8 in the language specification. Java is not one of them.
- lxgr 1y ago
  As of Java 18, it is: https://openjdk.org/jeps/400 https://openjdk.org/jeps/400
  - 9rx 1y ago
    That's not what your link says: The Java language allows source code to express Unicode characters in a UTF-16 encoding, and this is unaffected by the choice of UTF-8 for the default charset. Perhaps you pasted the wrong one by mistake? Not that such a change to the language for future code, even if only hypothetical, would bear any difference to this discussion anyway as legacy Java code encoded in other charsets is still Java code.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      Just one sentence after the one you quoted: > However, the javac compiler is affected because it assumes that .java source files are encoded with the default charset, unless configured otherwise by the -encoding option. Interestingly, in Windows, Java programs were supposedly encoded in CP-1252 before this...? > In JDK 17 and earlier, the default charset is determined when the Java runtime starts. On macOS, it is UTF-8 except in the POSIX C locale. On other operating systems, it depends upon the user's locale and the default encoding, e.g., on Windows, it is a codepage-based charset such as windows-1252 or windows-31j.
      - 9rx 1y ago
        1. javac is an implementation, not a specification. 2. As noted in the very quote provided, said particular implementation accepts various encodings; naturally, as the language allows various encodings. That is quite unlike the languages that specify that anything other than UTF-8 is invalid code.
rayiner 1y ago
As a former engineer, I would say a “system” is designed as a whole, like all of the things you mentioned (but unlike society). If we are talking about the interactions between separately designed things—e.g. various autonomous vehicles designed by different companies—then we’d talk about “emergent behaviors,” not “systems.”

RankingMember 1y ago

The problem is some of us have way more weight to throw around than others, so in some cases one of those "people making choices" has as much impact as millions of people. As a side-note, putting straws in the dishwasher doesn't do a very good job of cleaning the insides of them. Unfortunately, you've gotta faff with those little brushes.

etblg 1y ago

How does she prevent them from falling through the holes and hitting the heating element at the bottom? Does she throw them in the cutlery basket? Wouldn't it be light enough to fly around inside the dishwasher and land somewhere undesired?

rayiner 1y ago
She puts them in the cutlery basket.

hoseja 1y ago

Do you think the choanoflagellate making up your fingertip knows there is a system.