7 ms·

It's interesting that so many consumers (read: not java developers) have Java installed at all. I code in Java for work and so it's on those boxes, but I have

by SCdF 14y ago

It's interesting that so many consumers (read: not java developers) have Java installed at all. I code in Java for work and so it's on those boxes, but I have never found a need for it at home. I've only rarely come across a website that requires it. (The only exception is ADOM2, but that doesn't require a browser plugin, you just download it like any other executable [that you trust]) Does anyone here write consumer-focused non-server Java software?

MichaelGG 14y ago
A lot of online meeting/sharing/video conf sites seem to require Java. That's the largest reason I'm aware of.
Beldur 14y ago
I'm using http://www.gokgs.com http://www.gokgs.com a lot. Its a Client for the boardgame GO.
ThJ 14y ago
The 3-D Secure VISA system in Norway is based on BankID (https://www.bankid.no/Dette-er-BankID/BankID-in-English https://www.bankid.no/Dette-er-BankID/BankID-in-English) and uses Java. Everyone with a computer and a bank account has the Java plugin installed. Internationally, the majority of oekaki (online painting board) software has traditionally used Java because of its speed and versatility. My own real-time collaboration software, Sketcher, requires Java 1.5 at minimum. The software does bit-banging and custom pixel-level rendering and image compression in tight loops that can't be done fast or well enough in HTML5 or even Flash, and wasn't even possible back in 2004 when the software was originally developed. The Java code isn't as fast as native code, but it's pretty close, with Photoshop type pressure sensitive brushes rendered in real-time. I've been looking at WebGL, but the technology isn't really ready for a mass market yet, and is widely criticized for the security holes it potentially introduces by exposing the OpenGL API to the DOM. The whole web community seems to be ignoring rich content rendered on the client side. Without these capabilities, we'll never have real web app versions of programs like Photoshop. Right now, my focus is on getting Kickstarter funding and developing a more user friendly version of my app for iOS, where such facilities are available today.
DanBC 14y ago
Minecraft Mars Space Simulator
- jebblue 14y ago
  Yes, absolutely.
MarkMc 14y ago
I think Java on the desktop is seriously underrated. I've been writing Java for a desktop accounting app [1] for the last 8 years and it is fast, cross-platform, and indistinguishable from native applications. The trick is to use SWT for the UI rather than the built-in Swing UI. SWT is lightweight, has a simple API and provides an excellent user experience. Swing is bloated, has a frustratingly-complicated API and for the most part provides a woeful user experience. I really believe that if Sun had chosen to base their UI framework on something like SWT then today Java would dominate the desktop as much as it dominates server development. If you're curious, here's a juicy story about how the politics between Sun and IBM caused them to make such a bad choice: http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/msg00355.html http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/ms... [1] http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Java on the desktop could be (have been?) great, but Sun screwed the pooch on adding the details that a good Java desktop experience needed. The Swing/SWT thing aside, they were slow to, or never did, ship support for various popular audio/video codecs, system tray integration, support for various IO channels (serial ports back in the old days, later USB, Bluetooth, etc.) and probably a whole laundry list of other things I'm forgetting. It's sad too, because I'd still much prefer to push Java for certain classes of solutions, and still - to this day - find audio/video support (among other things) lagging. I guess, once Java took off as a server side platform, Sun just didn't have the vision or courage to seriously push Java on the desktop. Sad. :-(
  - jebblue 14y ago
    >> to this day - find audio/video support (among other things) lagging So somehow the small gang at Mojang pulled off the impossible with Minecraft? Or the excellent apps NASA used to make with Java before the past 3 years or so like WorldWind? Or FusionCharts? or IBM Symphony, or OpenOffice, or SameTime, or HP Virtual Rooms (the last few heavy, heavy media), Apache Directory Studio, Eclipse, NetBeans, soapUI, SQL Developer?
davidwparker 14y ago
I write Android apps (in Java), which is consumer-focused, non-server. But the target isn't exactly desktops either.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Android devices run Dalvik, not JVM. Does stuff like this issue affect Android?
gurkendoktor 14y ago
CrashPlan. Admittedly I'm more of a developer, but I have installed it on a few consumer PCs to use them as a source and sink of backups.
vrotaru 14y ago
> It's interesting that so many consumers (read: not java developers) have Java installed at all. Vuze (former Azureus) has quite large base install. There alose should be quite a lot of Swing in-house apps.
- aw3c2 14y ago
  For the same audience (copyists) JDownloader has a huge install base as well.
joshuakarjala 14y ago
In Denmark all government and financial interactions are accessed through a SSO (Digital Signatur) which is based on in browser Java applets. A lot of government service interaction is being forced online, to reduce spending. So you are forced to at least have one Java capable browser available.

by SCdF 14y ago

MichaelGG 14y ago

A lot of online meeting/sharing/video conf sites seem to require Java. That's the largest reason I'm aware of.

Beldur 14y ago

I'm using http://www.gokgs.com http://www.gokgs.com a lot. Its a Client for the boardgame GO.

ThJ 14y ago

The 3-D Secure VISA system in Norway is based on BankID (https://www.bankid.no/Dette-er-BankID/BankID-in-English https://www.bankid.no/Dette-er-BankID/BankID-in-English) and uses Java. Everyone with a computer and a bank account has the Java plugin installed. Internationally, the majority of oekaki (online painting board) software has traditionally used Java because of its speed and versatility. My own real-time collaboration software, Sketcher, requires Java 1.5 at minimum. The software does bit-banging and custom pixel-level rendering and image compression in tight loops that can't be done fast or well enough in HTML5 or even Flash, and wasn't even possible back in 2004 when the software was originally developed. The Java code isn't as fast as native code, but it's pretty close, with Photoshop type pressure sensitive brushes rendered in real-time. I've been looking at WebGL, but the technology isn't really ready for a mass market yet, and is widely criticized for the security holes it potentially introduces by exposing the OpenGL API to the DOM. The whole web community seems to be ignoring rich content rendered on the client side. Without these capabilities, we'll never have real web app versions of programs like Photoshop. Right now, my focus is on getting Kickstarter funding and developing a more user friendly version of my app for iOS, where such facilities are available today.

DanBC 14y ago

Minecraft Mars Space Simulator

jebblue 14y ago
Yes, absolutely.

MarkMc 14y ago

I think Java on the desktop is seriously underrated. I've been writing Java for a desktop accounting app [1] for the last 8 years and it is fast, cross-platform, and indistinguishable from native applications. The trick is to use SWT for the UI rather than the built-in Swing UI. SWT is lightweight, has a simple API and provides an excellent user experience. Swing is bloated, has a frustratingly-complicated API and for the most part provides a woeful user experience. I really believe that if Sun had chosen to base their UI framework on something like SWT then today Java would dominate the desktop as much as it dominates server development. If you're curious, here's a juicy story about how the politics between Sun and IBM caused them to make such a bad choice: http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/msg00355.html http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/ms... [1] http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk

mindcrime 14y ago
Java on the desktop could be (have been?) great, but Sun screwed the pooch on adding the details that a good Java desktop experience needed. The Swing/SWT thing aside, they were slow to, or never did, ship support for various popular audio/video codecs, system tray integration, support for various IO channels (serial ports back in the old days, later USB, Bluetooth, etc.) and probably a whole laundry list of other things I'm forgetting. It's sad too, because I'd still much prefer to push Java for certain classes of solutions, and still - to this day - find audio/video support (among other things) lagging. I guess, once Java took off as a server side platform, Sun just didn't have the vision or courage to seriously push Java on the desktop. Sad. :-(
- jebblue 14y ago
  >> to this day - find audio/video support (among other things) lagging So somehow the small gang at Mojang pulled off the impossible with Minecraft? Or the excellent apps NASA used to make with Java before the past 3 years or so like WorldWind? Or FusionCharts? or IBM Symphony, or OpenOffice, or SameTime, or HP Virtual Rooms (the last few heavy, heavy media), Apache Directory Studio, Eclipse, NetBeans, soapUI, SQL Developer?

davidwparker 14y ago

I write Android apps (in Java), which is consumer-focused, non-server. But the target isn't exactly desktops either.

Evbn 14y ago
Android devices run Dalvik, not JVM. Does stuff like this issue affect Android?

gurkendoktor 14y ago

CrashPlan. Admittedly I'm more of a developer, but I have installed it on a few consumer PCs to use them as a source and sink of backups.

vrotaru 14y ago

> It's interesting that so many consumers (read: not java developers) have Java installed at all. Vuze (former Azureus) has quite large base install. There alose should be quite a lot of Swing in-house apps.

aw3c2 14y ago
For the same audience (copyists) JDownloader has a huge install base as well.

joshuakarjala 14y ago

In Denmark all government and financial interactions are accessed through a SSO (Digital Signatur) which is based on in browser Java applets. A lot of government service interaction is being forced online, to reduce spending. So you are forced to at least have one Java capable browser available.