5 ms·

All phones eventually become obsolete, but their guts could be used in so many ways. I'd love for example if someone made an enclosure acting also as multi port

All phones eventually become obsolete, but their guts could be used in so many ways. I'd love for example if someone made an enclosure acting also as multi port docking station so that old phones with unlocked bootloader (Fairphone being one of them) could be reflashed with a different operating system then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses. Seeing all that perfectly good electronics going into landfills because planned obsolescence says so just irritates me. Can we do that at least for unlocked ones? Framework did something similar for their laptop mainboards, minus the docking station.function as they already have more ports than a phone. Any chances that this could be doable with Fairphone hardware?

dvdkon 1y ago
It's certainly technically possible. Phone motherboards have limited wired IO, but USB host mode is enough for a lot of things. The problem is how locked-down most phones are, and how hard it is to modify their software. Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). That all means starting an "ecosystem" of accessories and new non-phone software is costly and has an uncertain future. Personally I think the biggest issue is the theft-prevention functionality that means a phone picked out of e-waste is basically bricked (without some exploit). There's companies making new motherboards out of salvaged Intel chipsets, I'm sure it would be possible to build a business around the reuse of phones, but right now there are just too many obstacles. I think this could be solved with new legislation. At least here, doing anything with e-waste is already highly regulated. Giving registered e-waste processors the ability to unlock the bootloader of any device would reduce waste, and make unlocked phones something you could reliably buy in bulk. Then I think we could see the kind of aftermarket support for phones.
- WhyNotHugo 1y ago
  > Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used. Even if Fairphone would like to keep phones usable, Google can decide otherwise at any time. I started a thread on this topic on their forums, and they seem to have no interest in fixing this. I wouldn't consider hardware sustainable if it needs to talk to Google's servers to be used and remains completely locked down otherwise. If you find one of these devices in a drawer in 15 years, and Google has changed their server's API, then the phone is as usable as any other brand (nitpick: you have to "enter a contractual agreement" with Google, and not create an account. Folks on the forums seemed to be obsessed with the choice of word around this, although practically, it makes no difference).
  - neilv 1y ago
    That doesn't sound like a good sign for holistic sustainability. I've been forming a theory about companies that want to do good. Something like, they need a C-suite executive who is a true-believer, and, figuratively, a pissed-off street fighter, who can see threats to the mission coming from a block away. For a familiar example of when this isn't happening: most of, say, privacy efforts I see can be classified into one of: (1) well-meaning, but don't really know what they're doing, and hopelessly out of their league against the supposed threat; or (2) it's really just a product marketing angle, for individual pursuit of career or riches.
  - GTP 1y ago
    > You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used IIRC they offer a version with a de-googled custom rom preinstalled, does this apply to this option as well?
  - palata 1y ago
    Yeah I think you need to install a custom, deGoogled ROM (you can buy Fairphones that come with some). If you go with the Googled-Fairphone, then it is Googled indeed. I bought a Fairphone 3 a few years ago with /e/OS, so I don't have that problem. Also in all fairness, the "you have to log into Google before booting" is making it harder to steal and resell phones. I read somewhere that the number of stolen phones got lower since they (Google, Apple, I guess Samsung and the likes) introduced that "protection".
- truculent 1y ago
  I quite like the idea of ruling that device sellers have to either offer software support, or allow the hardware to be unlocked
anken 1y ago
Citronics from Brussels does that with Fairphone 3 hardware. https://citronics.eu/ https://citronics.eu/
- palata 1y ago
  I didn't know about this, it's cool! This said, I have a Fairphone 3 and it is still usable.
- fgeiger 1y ago
  AFAIK, citronics uses Fairphone 2 hardware: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43230764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43230764
pjc50 1y ago
I feel that adding new hardware to old hardware might just be compounding the waste. We can slow down the obsolescence, but flash wear is a real issue after a few years; that's caused a few phone replacements in my family. Heck, even reusing furniture in Western economies can be difficult, because the cost of handling it can easily exceed its value. It sort of survives in charity and antique shops, but only for the nicer items.
palata 1y ago
> then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses If they can be used like that, why couldn't they be used... as phones? Changing phone every two years is not sustainable, even if the old phone is used as an IoT wall terminal: it's still "consuming" one phone every two years. In a sense, an old phone in a drawer uses less energy than an old phone staying powered to control a lightbulb. > planned obsolescence Nitpick: I like to call it "premature obsolescence". Planned obsolescence is the idea of engineering the product to not last more than some time. I think nowadays it's often not the case; rather we engineer the product to last for the time of the warranty (1-2 years) and not more. And a product dying after 1 year is "premature", even though it was not actively engineered for that.
- TheDong 1y ago
  People will usually only carry one phone, and they'll want one that is capable of running recent apps, storing their photos and music, and also taking high quality photos. If you upgrade a phone to get a new one with a better camera, well, the processor on the old one is probably decent still, it could be a mini PC where the camera quality doesn't matter. Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade.
  - palata 1y ago
    > they'll want one that is capable of My feeling is that phones are not evolving that quickly anymore, though. > If you upgrade a phone to get a new one with a better camera, well, the processor on the old one is probably decent still, it could be a mini PC where the camera quality doesn't matter. Sure, but if you didn't need the mini PC in the first place, then it's not more sustainable than throwing it away. It's actually less sustainable, because now you consume energy for a mini PC you didn't need. Not saying people should not get their new toy. Just that they should not pretend it's sustainable :-). > Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade. Around me it's become more and more of a status symbol to not upgrade. It's sometimes almost a competition of "who has the oldest phone", and nobody is impressed by someone buying the latest iPhone. So... it's not the same everywhere :-).
rini17 1y ago
You can connect any peripherals including keyboard and mouse using usb-c hub. There are hubs that support external power available already so you can simultaneously charge the phone. I do sometimes use my fairphone with external keyboard case that way. Yes I would like higher quality one that better fits the phone, but I think that would be niche/bespoke expensive product.
- Tijdreiziger 1y ago
  Theoretically, it should be possible to design and 3D print such an enclosure, akin to existing video game console mods like the ‘Switch Pro’. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nintendo-Switch-Pro-kit-transforms-gaming-handheld-into-home-console-with-better-performance-and-temperatures.932113.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nintendo-Switch-Pro-kit-transf...
louismerlin 1y ago
I’ve been experimenting in the past few weeks with an old fairphone : https://far.computer/ https://far.computer/ Still work in progress, so I haven’t shared it here yet.
adrian_b 1y ago
For what you say, the most important is that the USB Type C connector of the phone must not be an antediluvian USB 2.0, but it must be an USB 3.0 or better, and also supporting DisplayPort. For such phones, using any kind of peripherals, including external monitors, network interfaces or docking stations becomes possible. There are relatively cheap smartphones with such USB ports, e.g. around $400 from Motorola, but the majority of the smartphones, including many of the most expensive, for which such limitations are inexcusable, are limited to a USB 2.0 interface, which is almost useless today. While this Fairphone seems to have good specifications otherwise, there is no word about its USB Type C connector. I am no longer willing to ever spend money on a smartphone that does not support at least USB 3.0 and DisplayPort. EDIT: Looking now on Gsmarena at Fairphone 5, I see that it had an adequate USB 3.0/DisplayPort. I have not noticed this before, because when searching for possible upgrades I was not looking to smartphones with CPUs as ancient as those of Fairphone 5. Hopefully Fairphone 6 will retain the USB interface of its predecessor. This, coupled with a relatively up-to-date mid-range Qualcomm SoC and with a reasonable price for what it offers, can make it an interesting choice.
- c01nd01r 1y ago
  Alas, the official website says "USB-C 2.0".
piokoch 1y ago
This does not scale at all. For hobbyist with no kids, sure, spend your time turning old phone for some fancy doorbell, etc. But for normals? Who would maintain such equipment, who would be in charge of testing if the battery will not get overheated once the new device stays for longer time in place X? Who would maintain and support such devices. I don't want to service myself my media player.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Sure but if old phones could be used like a really powerful raspberry pi (and they are really much more powerful, at least the high end) then the resale value would go up and more people would sell theirs to nerds rather than throwing it away. Still a net positive IMO

dvdkon 1y ago

It's certainly technically possible. Phone motherboards have limited wired IO, but USB host mode is enough for a lot of things. The problem is how locked-down most phones are, and how hard it is to modify their software. Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). That all means starting an "ecosystem" of accessories and new non-phone software is costly and has an uncertain future. Personally I think the biggest issue is the theft-prevention functionality that means a phone picked out of e-waste is basically bricked (without some exploit). There's companies making new motherboards out of salvaged Intel chipsets, I'm sure it would be possible to build a business around the reuse of phones, but right now there are just too many obstacles. I think this could be solved with new legislation. At least here, doing anything with e-waste is already highly regulated. Giving registered e-waste processors the ability to unlock the bootloader of any device would reduce waste, and make unlocked phones something you could reliably buy in bulk. Then I think we could see the kind of aftermarket support for phones.

WhyNotHugo 1y ago
> Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used. Even if Fairphone would like to keep phones usable, Google can decide otherwise at any time. I started a thread on this topic on their forums, and they seem to have no interest in fixing this. I wouldn't consider hardware sustainable if it needs to talk to Google's servers to be used and remains completely locked down otherwise. If you find one of these devices in a drawer in 15 years, and Google has changed their server's API, then the phone is as usable as any other brand (nitpick: you have to "enter a contractual agreement" with Google, and not create an account. Folks on the forums seemed to be obsessed with the choice of word around this, although practically, it makes no difference).
- neilv 1y ago
  That doesn't sound like a good sign for holistic sustainability. I've been forming a theory about companies that want to do good. Something like, they need a C-suite executive who is a true-believer, and, figuratively, a pissed-off street fighter, who can see threats to the mission coming from a block away. For a familiar example of when this isn't happening: most of, say, privacy efforts I see can be classified into one of: (1) well-meaning, but don't really know what they're doing, and hopelessly out of their league against the supposed threat; or (2) it's really just a product marketing angle, for individual pursuit of career or riches.
- GTP 1y ago
  > You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used IIRC they offer a version with a de-googled custom rom preinstalled, does this apply to this option as well?
- palata 1y ago
  Yeah I think you need to install a custom, deGoogled ROM (you can buy Fairphones that come with some). If you go with the Googled-Fairphone, then it is Googled indeed. I bought a Fairphone 3 a few years ago with /e/OS, so I don't have that problem. Also in all fairness, the "you have to log into Google before booting" is making it harder to steal and resell phones. I read somewhere that the number of stolen phones got lower since they (Google, Apple, I guess Samsung and the likes) introduced that "protection".
truculent 1y ago
I quite like the idea of ruling that device sellers have to either offer software support, or allow the hardware to be unlocked

anken 1y ago

Citronics from Brussels does that with Fairphone 3 hardware. https://citronics.eu/ https://citronics.eu/

palata 1y ago
I didn't know about this, it's cool! This said, I have a Fairphone 3 and it is still usable.
fgeiger 1y ago
AFAIK, citronics uses Fairphone 2 hardware: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43230764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43230764

pjc50 1y ago

I feel that adding new hardware to old hardware might just be compounding the waste. We can slow down the obsolescence, but flash wear is a real issue after a few years; that's caused a few phone replacements in my family. Heck, even reusing furniture in Western economies can be difficult, because the cost of handling it can easily exceed its value. It sort of survives in charity and antique shops, but only for the nicer items.

palata 1y ago

> then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses If they can be used like that, why couldn't they be used... as phones? Changing phone every two years is not sustainable, even if the old phone is used as an IoT wall terminal: it's still "consuming" one phone every two years. In a sense, an old phone in a drawer uses less energy than an old phone staying powered to control a lightbulb. > planned obsolescence Nitpick: I like to call it "premature obsolescence". Planned obsolescence is the idea of engineering the product to not last more than some time. I think nowadays it's often not the case; rather we engineer the product to last for the time of the warranty (1-2 years) and not more. And a product dying after 1 year is "premature", even though it was not actively engineered for that.

TheDong 1y ago
People will usually only carry one phone, and they'll want one that is capable of running recent apps, storing their photos and music, and also taking high quality photos. If you upgrade a phone to get a new one with a better camera, well, the processor on the old one is probably decent still, it could be a mini PC where the camera quality doesn't matter. Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade.
- palata 1y ago
  > they'll want one that is capable of My feeling is that phones are not evolving that quickly anymore, though. > If you upgrade a phone to get a new one with a better camera, well, the processor on the old one is probably decent still, it could be a mini PC where the camera quality doesn't matter. Sure, but if you didn't need the mini PC in the first place, then it's not more sustainable than throwing it away. It's actually less sustainable, because now you consume energy for a mini PC you didn't need. Not saying people should not get their new toy. Just that they should not pretend it's sustainable :-). > Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade. Around me it's become more and more of a status symbol to not upgrade. It's sometimes almost a competition of "who has the oldest phone", and nobody is impressed by someone buying the latest iPhone. So... it's not the same everywhere :-).

rini17 1y ago

You can connect any peripherals including keyboard and mouse using usb-c hub. There are hubs that support external power available already so you can simultaneously charge the phone. I do sometimes use my fairphone with external keyboard case that way. Yes I would like higher quality one that better fits the phone, but I think that would be niche/bespoke expensive product.

Tijdreiziger 1y ago
Theoretically, it should be possible to design and 3D print such an enclosure, akin to existing video game console mods like the ‘Switch Pro’. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nintendo-Switch-Pro-kit-transforms-gaming-handheld-into-home-console-with-better-performance-and-temperatures.932113.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nintendo-Switch-Pro-kit-transf...

louismerlin 1y ago

I’ve been experimenting in the past few weeks with an old fairphone : https://far.computer/ https://far.computer/ Still work in progress, so I haven’t shared it here yet.

adrian_b 1y ago

For what you say, the most important is that the USB Type C connector of the phone must not be an antediluvian USB 2.0, but it must be an USB 3.0 or better, and also supporting DisplayPort. For such phones, using any kind of peripherals, including external monitors, network interfaces or docking stations becomes possible. There are relatively cheap smartphones with such USB ports, e.g. around $400 from Motorola, but the majority of the smartphones, including many of the most expensive, for which such limitations are inexcusable, are limited to a USB 2.0 interface, which is almost useless today. While this Fairphone seems to have good specifications otherwise, there is no word about its USB Type C connector. I am no longer willing to ever spend money on a smartphone that does not support at least USB 3.0 and DisplayPort. EDIT: Looking now on Gsmarena at Fairphone 5, I see that it had an adequate USB 3.0/DisplayPort. I have not noticed this before, because when searching for possible upgrades I was not looking to smartphones with CPUs as ancient as those of Fairphone 5. Hopefully Fairphone 6 will retain the USB interface of its predecessor. This, coupled with a relatively up-to-date mid-range Qualcomm SoC and with a reasonable price for what it offers, can make it an interesting choice.

c01nd01r 1y ago
Alas, the official website says "USB-C 2.0".

piokoch 1y ago

This does not scale at all. For hobbyist with no kids, sure, spend your time turning old phone for some fancy doorbell, etc. But for normals? Who would maintain such equipment, who would be in charge of testing if the battery will not get overheated once the new device stays for longer time in place X? Who would maintain and support such devices. I don't want to service myself my media player.

wkat4242 1y ago
Sure but if old phones could be used like a really powerful raspberry pi (and they are really much more powerful, at least the high end) then the resale value would go up and more people would sell theirs to nerds rather than throwing it away. Still a net positive IMO