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> and will resolutely resist any interpretation of events which harms their narrow self-interest. I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their i

> and will resolutely resist any interpretation of events which harms their narrow self-interest. I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their interests.

spauldo 1y ago
Voters?
vharuck 1y ago
People who donate money or time to charity. Volunteer firefighters. There's a massive list, really. Overall, kindness is a very common trait. Why else would we have so many countries with welfare programs, even for classes of citizens the majority will never belong to?
- monkeyelite 1y ago
  Do you have any articles about firefighters voting to close or downsize the fire house?
ordu 1y ago
Altruism is very real thing, with very real examples of behavior influenced by altruism. Moreover it altruism is not just something that people do, because they are culturally programmed to believe, that altruism exists. Examples of altruistic behavior are known for many species, including those, that cannot pass complex concepts from one generation to the next by telling fairy tales to their offspring. Economics tends to use model where every agent is a total egoistic rationalist, and likely it is one of the reasons why the society tolerate totally egoistic corporations. You claimed in other comment that you believe that everything is biased? Don't you think that economics biased you toward egoism?
- monkeyelite 1y ago
  > Don't you think that economics biased you toward egoism? Yes. Economists and critics often do not recognize intangible rewards and incentives. > Altruism is very real thing, with very real examples of behavior influenced by altruism. Now do second order reasoning. I didn’t say nobody ever does anything for anybody else. I said organizations do not generally act and support information which is not in their interests.
  - zimpenfish 1y ago
    Minor nit - the word "generally" was not in "I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their interests" which makes it a weaker (and more easily defended) claim than your original.
  - ordu 1y ago
    > I said organizations do not generally act and support information which is not in their interests. I can agree with this statement, but not with your original claim.
feoren 1y ago
> I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their interests. I do. I know a group of people that would happily let you shatter every window in their home if you also agreed to burn down the house of their brown-skinned neighbor next door. The same group of people that would cheerfully let you grope their own daughter's genitals if it meant that trans people suffered far worse. The same group of people who would gleefully give up their rights to due process if it meant that people who talk differently from them can be sent to prison camps en masse. The same group of people who cheer at the idea of letting the poor and sick die alone on the street, even as you do everything you can to keep them poor and sick themselves. This group will take any bargain against their own interests as long as others are suffering worse, and they will brag and cheer about it the whole time. And there are tens of millions of them.

> and will resolutely resist any interpretation of events which harms their narrow self-interest. I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their interests.

spauldo 1y ago

Voters?

vharuck 1y ago

People who donate money or time to charity. Volunteer firefighters. There's a massive list, really. Overall, kindness is a very common trait. Why else would we have so many countries with welfare programs, even for classes of citizens the majority will never belong to?

monkeyelite 1y ago
Do you have any articles about firefighters voting to close or downsize the fire house?

ordu 1y ago

Altruism is very real thing, with very real examples of behavior influenced by altruism. Moreover it altruism is not just something that people do, because they are culturally programmed to believe, that altruism exists. Examples of altruistic behavior are known for many species, including those, that cannot pass complex concepts from one generation to the next by telling fairy tales to their offspring. Economics tends to use model where every agent is a total egoistic rationalist, and likely it is one of the reasons why the society tolerate totally egoistic corporations. You claimed in other comment that you believe that everything is biased? Don't you think that economics biased you toward egoism?

monkeyelite 1y ago
> Don't you think that economics biased you toward egoism? Yes. Economists and critics often do not recognize intangible rewards and incentives. > Altruism is very real thing, with very real examples of behavior influenced by altruism. Now do second order reasoning. I didn’t say nobody ever does anything for anybody else. I said organizations do not generally act and support information which is not in their interests.
- zimpenfish 1y ago
  Minor nit - the word "generally" was not in "I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their interests" which makes it a weaker (and more easily defended) claim than your original.
- ordu 1y ago
  > I said organizations do not generally act and support information which is not in their interests. I can agree with this statement, but not with your original claim.

feoren 1y ago

> I don’t know any group who intentionally acts against their interests. I do. I know a group of people that would happily let you shatter every window in their home if you also agreed to burn down the house of their brown-skinned neighbor next door. The same group of people that would cheerfully let you grope their own daughter's genitals if it meant that trans people suffered far worse. The same group of people who would gleefully give up their rights to due process if it meant that people who talk differently from them can be sent to prison camps en masse. The same group of people who cheer at the idea of letting the poor and sick die alone on the street, even as you do everything you can to keep them poor and sick themselves. This group will take any bargain against their own interests as long as others are suffering worse, and they will brag and cheer about it the whole time. And there are tens of millions of them.