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A lot of people have shorted TSLA and lost a lot of money - See Jim Chanos. I actually agree the price is going to go down before it goes up, but I wouldnt wast

A lot of people have shorted TSLA and lost a lot of money - See Jim Chanos. I actually agree the price is going to go down before it goes up, but I wouldnt waste money trying to time it Long term I think they are fine - I think they will have solved FSD and no one will remember Elon's politics.

m101 1y ago
Tesla was actually growing then. This time is totally different.
- misiti3780 1y ago
  If you think Tesla is a car company, then yes I agree with you, it looks and acts like a meme stock. I think they're an AI company that has amazing manufacturing processes that makes cars. Of course I might be wrong, but the value can be justified if I'm right.
  - m101 1y ago
    Don't get me wrong, what they have achieved is incredible, but that doesn't mean they are infinitely valuable. There is a fair price.
    - misiti3780 1y ago
      Time will tell. My prediction is it's going to head south to ~200 and then 200->1-4K by 2030
laidoffamazon 1y ago
It seems far too early to say they will solve FSD?
- misiti3780 1y ago
  I'm a daily user and biased, but my anecdotal experience is they will solve it. Also this article is about them taking the first step to solving it.
  - SirFatty 1y ago
    Haven't they been promising it for years? Even selling the ability to upgrade to it once it's available?
    - misiti3780 1y ago
      yes
- m101 1y ago
  I believe they will but that doesn't negate my comments on price.
tsimionescu 1y ago
It's funny to think that Tesla, the only self driving company that has no working form of self driving, is the one that will "solve FSD". Look at Waymo or Mercedes if you want to see what working FSD looks like. Tesla isn't even in the same ballpark yet.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  I have lost enormous money shorting Tesla over the years. I'm even short right now. I can tell you though, Tesla is the only company doing two things: Making full self driving car that doesn't need an expensive and expansive sensor suite. Just off the shelf cameras and a GPU. Making full self driving that can drive anywhere, no pre-mapping needed. Waymo probably could do without pre-mapping, Mercedes probably not. Right now though Tesla is the only player with a car that you can buy and will "self drive" anywhere in the country. The other car companies cars only work on select pre-mapped roads, and IIRC Mercedes only works on highways and over 40mph. The bet against Tesla is that they will not be able to pull this off. Not that competitors will beat them to the punch. If Tesla did get FSD with cameras on par with Waymo, Waymo would likely be unable to compete.
  - archagon 1y ago
    They're also the only car company gleefully making die-hard political enemies around the world.
  - RivieraKid 1y ago
    Part of me agrees with what you said, but my primary view is: There's no indication that Tesla has solved the fundamental challenge of self-driving - making the system incredibly reliable and safe and able to handle myriads of rare situations. Tesla is at a point where multiple self-driving companies were years ago. The general experience from this field is that scaling is extremely hard because improving reliability and safety by orders of magnitude is extremely hard. I think people are too hung up on the sensor suite. Once you solve the fundamental problem, a sensor suite is kind of an implementation detail. Waymo's system is robust to the removal of any sensor type / map. There's a good chance that Waymo in a camera-only mode would perform better than the Tesla robotaxi. Mapping is not an issue, it's less expensive than people expect and you only need to do it once, so the cost per mile is approximately zero. And in Waymo's case, there's a lot of room for streamlining the process. The more you map, the easier and faster it gets. BTW, MobilEye has a very lightweight and crowdsourced mapping process, they're also camera-centric and have a cheap hardware package. Waymo's long-term goal is a a system that is cheap and works everywhere. They've spent 15 years with a focus on solving the hard problem. Now they seem to be close to the finish line and they're shifting their focus and money into the easier stuff, optimizing hardware and expansion.

m101 1y ago

Tesla was actually growing then. This time is totally different.

misiti3780 1y ago
If you think Tesla is a car company, then yes I agree with you, it looks and acts like a meme stock. I think they're an AI company that has amazing manufacturing processes that makes cars. Of course I might be wrong, but the value can be justified if I'm right.
- m101 1y ago
  Don't get me wrong, what they have achieved is incredible, but that doesn't mean they are infinitely valuable. There is a fair price.
  - misiti3780 1y ago
    Time will tell. My prediction is it's going to head south to ~200 and then 200->1-4K by 2030

laidoffamazon 1y ago

It seems far too early to say they will solve FSD?

misiti3780 1y ago
I'm a daily user and biased, but my anecdotal experience is they will solve it. Also this article is about them taking the first step to solving it.
- SirFatty 1y ago
  Haven't they been promising it for years? Even selling the ability to upgrade to it once it's available?
  - misiti3780 1y ago
    yes
m101 1y ago
I believe they will but that doesn't negate my comments on price.

tsimionescu 1y ago

It's funny to think that Tesla, the only self driving company that has no working form of self driving, is the one that will "solve FSD". Look at Waymo or Mercedes if you want to see what working FSD looks like. Tesla isn't even in the same ballpark yet.

Workaccount2 1y ago
I have lost enormous money shorting Tesla over the years. I'm even short right now. I can tell you though, Tesla is the only company doing two things: Making full self driving car that doesn't need an expensive and expansive sensor suite. Just off the shelf cameras and a GPU. Making full self driving that can drive anywhere, no pre-mapping needed. Waymo probably could do without pre-mapping, Mercedes probably not. Right now though Tesla is the only player with a car that you can buy and will "self drive" anywhere in the country. The other car companies cars only work on select pre-mapped roads, and IIRC Mercedes only works on highways and over 40mph. The bet against Tesla is that they will not be able to pull this off. Not that competitors will beat them to the punch. If Tesla did get FSD with cameras on par with Waymo, Waymo would likely be unable to compete.
- archagon 1y ago
  They're also the only car company gleefully making die-hard political enemies around the world.
- RivieraKid 1y ago
  Part of me agrees with what you said, but my primary view is: There's no indication that Tesla has solved the fundamental challenge of self-driving - making the system incredibly reliable and safe and able to handle myriads of rare situations. Tesla is at a point where multiple self-driving companies were years ago. The general experience from this field is that scaling is extremely hard because improving reliability and safety by orders of magnitude is extremely hard. I think people are too hung up on the sensor suite. Once you solve the fundamental problem, a sensor suite is kind of an implementation detail. Waymo's system is robust to the removal of any sensor type / map. There's a good chance that Waymo in a camera-only mode would perform better than the Tesla robotaxi. Mapping is not an issue, it's less expensive than people expect and you only need to do it once, so the cost per mile is approximately zero. And in Waymo's case, there's a lot of room for streamlining the process. The more you map, the easier and faster it gets. BTW, MobilEye has a very lightweight and crowdsourced mapping process, they're also camera-centric and have a cheap hardware package. Waymo's long-term goal is a a system that is cheap and works everywhere. They've spent 15 years with a focus on solving the hard problem. Now they seem to be close to the finish line and they're shifting their focus and money into the easier stuff, optimizing hardware and expansion.