5 ms·

That any US citizen doesn't have a passport is mind blowing, sad, and also indicative. $18/yr for access to most of the world. Yet people say "No thanks. I'm

by ethbr1 1y ago

That any US citizen doesn't have a passport is mind blowing, sad, and also indicative. $18/yr for access to most of the world. Yet people say "No thanks. I'm sure the US is great."

ryandrake 1y ago
Fewer than half of Americans have passports. Many have probably never left their home state, and there are probably a significant number who have never left a 100 mile radius around their homes. People who regularly travel internationally are not a large or powerful voter base. They can be shit on without hurting a politician's career.
- account42 1y ago
  Voter base share isn't all that matters - most richer Americans will have passports and want to travel internationally.
monkeyfun 1y ago
Access that costs thousands of dollars for a short trip that most people simply don't have the spare money for. The median US income is <40k/year, and healthcare + housing costs dominate most workers' lives. Also, it's not $18/year like a subscription, it's $165 upfront -- money that could be spent on gas, food, medical bills, desperately saved up for emergencies, etc. and won't provide any benefit whatsoever to their lives unless they're taking a vacation they probably don't feel they can afford financially or in their <2 weeks of vacation time.
- account42 1y ago
  > Also, it's not $18/year like a subscription, it's $165 upfront That's never an issue from Americans when it is something they want - the country practically runs on loans.
OkayPhysicist 1y ago
For all but a tiny fraction of Americans, the cost of a passport is a tiny, rounding error expense compared to actually leaving the country. This isn't Europe, where you take a wrong turn and end up in a different country. Here in California, there's a highway you can drive on for 750 miles and not even have left the state (like driving from Paris to Warsaw). And we're just one state of 50. On the diagonal, crossing the continental US is like driving from London to Tel-Aviv. Nearby, we've got Canada and Mexico, and up until pretty recently, you could cross over those borders with a driver's license. And both those countries are big. On the other sides we have oceans. So for most Americans, the minimum cost of an international flight is the same as the cost for a European to fly to the US ($500-$1000), and a full day's travel each way. Here on HN, we might forget that most of the population makes fucking peanuts, so keep in mind that means that for most Americans, $1000 is a lot of money. Most Americans also don't get a lot of time off, so those 2 days of travel are a significant cost in of themselves. All told, the lack of passports amongst Americans isn't indicative of some isolationist mindset. It's just that they have no need of a passport, because they aren't taking the kinds of extremely far-flung vacations that would need one, and they know if they need one, they can just get one before their trip.
- DrJaws 1y ago
  If you go from Paris to Warsaw, you still won't need a passport, just a basic ID Schengen area travelling around Europe as European is not much more hassle than moving on the US from one state to the other.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    Huh, TIL. I had assumed that you needed a passport, they just didn't do border checks.
    - jauco 1y ago
      In europe we have a kind of mini passport, called person id. Which only works in your own country and other shengen countries. It’s nearly the same cost as a passport (at least in my municipality) You are required to have a passport (or id) with you (as in, that’s what the law says). Even in your own country. But in your own country a drivers license is usually also sufficient. But in practice you will almost never be asked to show any of those. In your own country, nor abroad.
HWR_14 1y ago
The US isn't insanely backwards. France hovers at 50-60% of citizens with passports. The UK has similar rates to the US. Italy is slightly higher at 60%. Japan and China have far lower rates. I think you just overestimate how common passports are.
- account42 1y ago
  Yes. I have a passport as do most of the people I know - but that doesn't mean anything. It's easy to not notice when you live in a bubble.
account42 1y ago
The US is pretty big and varied. It has more than enough natural wonders to last you a lifetime. Nothing wrong with someone deciding that they don't need more than tat.
s1artibartfast 1y ago
I think you are projecting motivation quite a bit. Travel, in general, is an expensive and inconvenient luxury of the upper middle class.

by ethbr1 1y ago

That any US citizen doesn't have a passport is mind blowing, sad, and also indicative. $18/yr for access to most of the world. Yet people say "No thanks. I'm sure the US is great."

ryandrake 1y ago

Fewer than half of Americans have passports. Many have probably never left their home state, and there are probably a significant number who have never left a 100 mile radius around their homes. People who regularly travel internationally are not a large or powerful voter base. They can be shit on without hurting a politician's career.

account42 1y ago
Voter base share isn't all that matters - most richer Americans will have passports and want to travel internationally.

monkeyfun 1y ago

Access that costs thousands of dollars for a short trip that most people simply don't have the spare money for. The median US income is <40k/year, and healthcare + housing costs dominate most workers' lives. Also, it's not $18/year like a subscription, it's $165 upfront -- money that could be spent on gas, food, medical bills, desperately saved up for emergencies, etc. and won't provide any benefit whatsoever to their lives unless they're taking a vacation they probably don't feel they can afford financially or in their <2 weeks of vacation time.

account42 1y ago
> Also, it's not $18/year like a subscription, it's $165 upfront That's never an issue from Americans when it is something they want - the country practically runs on loans.

OkayPhysicist 1y ago

For all but a tiny fraction of Americans, the cost of a passport is a tiny, rounding error expense compared to actually leaving the country. This isn't Europe, where you take a wrong turn and end up in a different country. Here in California, there's a highway you can drive on for 750 miles and not even have left the state (like driving from Paris to Warsaw). And we're just one state of 50. On the diagonal, crossing the continental US is like driving from London to Tel-Aviv. Nearby, we've got Canada and Mexico, and up until pretty recently, you could cross over those borders with a driver's license. And both those countries are big. On the other sides we have oceans. So for most Americans, the minimum cost of an international flight is the same as the cost for a European to fly to the US ($500-$1000), and a full day's travel each way. Here on HN, we might forget that most of the population makes fucking peanuts, so keep in mind that means that for most Americans, $1000 is a lot of money. Most Americans also don't get a lot of time off, so those 2 days of travel are a significant cost in of themselves. All told, the lack of passports amongst Americans isn't indicative of some isolationist mindset. It's just that they have no need of a passport, because they aren't taking the kinds of extremely far-flung vacations that would need one, and they know if they need one, they can just get one before their trip.

DrJaws 1y ago
If you go from Paris to Warsaw, you still won't need a passport, just a basic ID Schengen area travelling around Europe as European is not much more hassle than moving on the US from one state to the other.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  Huh, TIL. I had assumed that you needed a passport, they just didn't do border checks.
  - jauco 1y ago
    In europe we have a kind of mini passport, called person id. Which only works in your own country and other shengen countries. It’s nearly the same cost as a passport (at least in my municipality) You are required to have a passport (or id) with you (as in, that’s what the law says). Even in your own country. But in your own country a drivers license is usually also sufficient. But in practice you will almost never be asked to show any of those. In your own country, nor abroad.

HWR_14 1y ago

The US isn't insanely backwards. France hovers at 50-60% of citizens with passports. The UK has similar rates to the US. Italy is slightly higher at 60%. Japan and China have far lower rates. I think you just overestimate how common passports are.

account42 1y ago
Yes. I have a passport as do most of the people I know - but that doesn't mean anything. It's easy to not notice when you live in a bubble.

account42 1y ago

The US is pretty big and varied. It has more than enough natural wonders to last you a lifetime. Nothing wrong with someone deciding that they don't need more than tat.

s1artibartfast 1y ago

I think you are projecting motivation quite a bit. Travel, in general, is an expensive and inconvenient luxury of the upper middle class.