4 ms·

People change smartphones every few years because they want the new shiny ones. I think it would be more effective and pragmatic to work in depth on recycling o

People change smartphones every few years because they want the new shiny ones. I think it would be more effective and pragmatic to work in depth on recycling of smartphones and all electronics rather than mandating things that add cost and resources without necessarily making a difference in the end. To me this is typical political handwaving, aiming at surpeficial "solutions" that will get easy support (because "obviously" it makes sense, even if, really, not so much...) while not addressing the deep, more complex but more beneficial to solve, issues.

AndrewDucker 1y ago
I want my current phone, but with a new battery.
- pndy 1y ago
  I miss times when we could easily open backplates and replace batteries, swap sim cards at ease and these devices lasted.
fainpul 1y ago
> because they want the new shiny ones I don't believe that. I think the desire for a new phone is mostly triggered by some unhappiness with the current one. For example because the battery doesn't last a full day anymore, the screen is cracked, it doesn't get security updates anymore or performance feels sluggish (because new OS and apps are more demanding or wasteful). If replacing the battery or screen is expensive, buying a new phone becomes more attractive, since you might also get a better camera, more performance, larger display or other benefits. On the other hand, if I can order a new battery for cheap and swap it out in five minutes, I might just do that and keep my old phone for a few years longer.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  It is already perfectly doable and easy to have the screen or battery replaced. It is not really expensive but there are parts and labour involved. Recycling improvements would yield much more sustainable benefits but this is not as easy or PR-friendly as decreeing "just make then repairable" and then pat yourself on the back for saving the environment...
  - IsTom 1y ago
    > It is not really expensive but there are parts and labour involved. My SO's phone battery was busted after 3 years of use and replacing it would cost half of a new phone. Replacements battery itself is cheap, but amount of labor it takes to take apart current smartphones is just unreasonable.
    - NekkoDroid 1y ago
      I recently had my phone (Galaxy S21) stop charging and the SIM not be recognized anymore. I wasn't able to figure out why for a while until I opened the phone (it is relatively easy as the back is plastic and it bulges out if you blow into the SIM slot, making it easier to remove by hand). Ended up being that an internal cable came loose that connected the bottom board to the main components after I dropped it. It just made me personally very happy that I was able to repair such a minor problem in the grand scheme of things. It really was just "detach the plastic back from the adhesive, unscrew some (~13) screws, reattach the cable, put everything back together". While I'd still love if it weren't that difficult it was all-in-all a very easy fix compared to other things I've done. And yes, while the back still somewhat sticks to the case, is somewhat loose. I probably should replace the adhesive but I use a case anyway so it isn't really a problem. So, it doesn't HAVE to be difficult to disassemble a phone, unless incentivised to do so, it is another revenue stream for manufacturers if they make it so that only they can repair it (pairing components cryptographically, to which they only have the keys to... just give the owner the fucking keys and let them decide...)
  - ta1243 1y ago
    Reduce Reuse Recycle In that order. Recylcing is a last resort.
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      Smartphones (and everything in general) will be discarded at some point (realistically, sooner than later) with 100% certainty whatever slogans you want to push. So effective and efficient recycling is the most important for sustainability, it is absolutely crucial. But, as said, it is possibly the trickiest bit that requires in-depth industrial work across the whole chain so, instead, simplistic alternatives are pushed. At one smartphone per human being over 10 years old, thinking that "reduce" and "reuse" (how?) will make a difference is completely unrealistic.
- tzs 1y ago
  For iPhone in the US battery replacement is not expensive. A battery replacement not covered by the warranty or Apple Care ranges from $70 for really old phones to $100-120 for the latest models (the high end is a range because it depends on whether you have the regular model or a pro or max). That’s way cheaper than a new iPhone. It’s even cheaper if you use a third party repair place instead of Apple. Third party repair places are common even in small towns. In my small town there is one inside the Walmart and one in a standalone shop, and in the small town around 8 miles away there are two in the mall and one or two standalone ones.
dkjaudyeqooe 1y ago
This is not true for most people. They get comfortable with their phones and they don't see any reason to change something that works. My friend has had her phone for 7 years and she's being pushed off it because apps are refusing to run on it now. No other reason than that.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  And this would not change anything about that.
  - Kbelicius 1y ago
    Yes it would. > longer availability of operating system updates, at least 5 years from the date the last unit model is sold
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      Availability of OS updates does not imply "ideal" user experience...
      - williamdclt 1y ago
        Well the person you're replying to didn't say anything about "ideal" user experience, they're talking about the phone being usable. There's a whole spectrum between these two points
    - bmacho 1y ago
      5 years is a joke.
  - yoavm 1y ago
    The article mentions "longer availability of operating system updates, at least 5 years from the date the last unit model is sold". So it would absolutely change everything about that.
  - reycharles 1y ago
wallaBBB 1y ago
Wanting the latest and greatest was a thing back in 2010s, when there was a lot of progress and a lot of experiments by the phone manufacturers. Today, me and most of my friends are pushing our phones as long as we can (4+ years). My parents hate when they have to change phones, because they then have to adjust to a new UI. If battery and screen could be easily replaceable + security updates, many people would not be changing their phones for 5+ years.
Lutger 1y ago
Maybe teenagers still do that, but I feel there are no real shiny new features anymore. I've upgraded my broken 5 year old phone and sure enough, the photos it takes are better and its a bit smoother overall, but otherwise I don't see a truly major improvement. Major innovations (from the user pov) are happening mostly in software these days, not in hardware. So I don't see how a little bit of regulation keeping hardware alive a little longer is political handwaving at all. It doesn't matter if any 'deep and complex issues' are not addressed, whatever they are, its still a valid improvement over the status quo, however small. Yes, mandating 5 years of security updates isn't going to solve climate change or fix the economy, but it would extend the safe lifetime of most mid range phone by around two years and for the vast majority of users, that will be just fine. I know it is not that interesting to talk about small improvements, but a lot of politics is exactly about that: improving society with many thousands of very marginal steps. They are not a distraction, they are the work. I'm not a conservative, but this kind of pragmatism is what I feel used to be the true value of old school conservative politics, and it is deeply lacking its current form. Conservatism needs to be boring again.
Sayrus 1y ago
Not everyone has the financial capability to change their phone to follow trends, some people only buy second-hand, some people fall back on cheaper phones but change less often, some people rely on charity because their situation just doesn't allow them to fork the expense. Some people just want to keep their phone for long periods, I kept my last one 6 years and I only changed it because it died. I think all these people deserve to have a phone platform that doesn't abandon them because they can't or won't buy a flagship every year of two.
pjmlp 1y ago
In most European countries we tend to use pre-paid phones, not contracts that including replacing the phone every three years. Those do exist, but I doubt they much adopted in Southern Europe, outside the packages that include mobile phones, Internet and cable TV together, and not everyone is into them either.

AndrewDucker 1y ago

I want my current phone, but with a new battery.

pndy 1y ago
I miss times when we could easily open backplates and replace batteries, swap sim cards at ease and these devices lasted.

fainpul 1y ago

> because they want the new shiny ones I don't believe that. I think the desire for a new phone is mostly triggered by some unhappiness with the current one. For example because the battery doesn't last a full day anymore, the screen is cracked, it doesn't get security updates anymore or performance feels sluggish (because new OS and apps are more demanding or wasteful). If replacing the battery or screen is expensive, buying a new phone becomes more attractive, since you might also get a better camera, more performance, larger display or other benefits. On the other hand, if I can order a new battery for cheap and swap it out in five minutes, I might just do that and keep my old phone for a few years longer.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
It is already perfectly doable and easy to have the screen or battery replaced. It is not really expensive but there are parts and labour involved. Recycling improvements would yield much more sustainable benefits but this is not as easy or PR-friendly as decreeing "just make then repairable" and then pat yourself on the back for saving the environment...
- IsTom 1y ago
  > It is not really expensive but there are parts and labour involved. My SO's phone battery was busted after 3 years of use and replacing it would cost half of a new phone. Replacements battery itself is cheap, but amount of labor it takes to take apart current smartphones is just unreasonable.
  - NekkoDroid 1y ago
    I recently had my phone (Galaxy S21) stop charging and the SIM not be recognized anymore. I wasn't able to figure out why for a while until I opened the phone (it is relatively easy as the back is plastic and it bulges out if you blow into the SIM slot, making it easier to remove by hand). Ended up being that an internal cable came loose that connected the bottom board to the main components after I dropped it. It just made me personally very happy that I was able to repair such a minor problem in the grand scheme of things. It really was just "detach the plastic back from the adhesive, unscrew some (~13) screws, reattach the cable, put everything back together". While I'd still love if it weren't that difficult it was all-in-all a very easy fix compared to other things I've done. And yes, while the back still somewhat sticks to the case, is somewhat loose. I probably should replace the adhesive but I use a case anyway so it isn't really a problem. So, it doesn't HAVE to be difficult to disassemble a phone, unless incentivised to do so, it is another revenue stream for manufacturers if they make it so that only they can repair it (pairing components cryptographically, to which they only have the keys to... just give the owner the fucking keys and let them decide...)
- ta1243 1y ago
  Reduce Reuse Recycle In that order. Recylcing is a last resort.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    Smartphones (and everything in general) will be discarded at some point (realistically, sooner than later) with 100% certainty whatever slogans you want to push. So effective and efficient recycling is the most important for sustainability, it is absolutely crucial. But, as said, it is possibly the trickiest bit that requires in-depth industrial work across the whole chain so, instead, simplistic alternatives are pushed. At one smartphone per human being over 10 years old, thinking that "reduce" and "reuse" (how?) will make a difference is completely unrealistic.
tzs 1y ago
For iPhone in the US battery replacement is not expensive. A battery replacement not covered by the warranty or Apple Care ranges from $70 for really old phones to $100-120 for the latest models (the high end is a range because it depends on whether you have the regular model or a pro or max). That’s way cheaper than a new iPhone. It’s even cheaper if you use a third party repair place instead of Apple. Third party repair places are common even in small towns. In my small town there is one inside the Walmart and one in a standalone shop, and in the small town around 8 miles away there are two in the mall and one or two standalone ones.

dkjaudyeqooe 1y ago

This is not true for most people. They get comfortable with their phones and they don't see any reason to change something that works. My friend has had her phone for 7 years and she's being pushed off it because apps are refusing to run on it now. No other reason than that.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
And this would not change anything about that.
- Kbelicius 1y ago
  Yes it would. > longer availability of operating system updates, at least 5 years from the date the last unit model is sold
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    Availability of OS updates does not imply "ideal" user experience...
    - williamdclt 1y ago
      Well the person you're replying to didn't say anything about "ideal" user experience, they're talking about the phone being usable. There's a whole spectrum between these two points
  - bmacho 1y ago
    5 years is a joke.
- yoavm 1y ago
  The article mentions "longer availability of operating system updates, at least 5 years from the date the last unit model is sold". So it would absolutely change everything about that.
- reycharles 1y ago

wallaBBB 1y ago

Wanting the latest and greatest was a thing back in 2010s, when there was a lot of progress and a lot of experiments by the phone manufacturers. Today, me and most of my friends are pushing our phones as long as we can (4+ years). My parents hate when they have to change phones, because they then have to adjust to a new UI. If battery and screen could be easily replaceable + security updates, many people would not be changing their phones for 5+ years.

Lutger 1y ago

Maybe teenagers still do that, but I feel there are no real shiny new features anymore. I've upgraded my broken 5 year old phone and sure enough, the photos it takes are better and its a bit smoother overall, but otherwise I don't see a truly major improvement. Major innovations (from the user pov) are happening mostly in software these days, not in hardware. So I don't see how a little bit of regulation keeping hardware alive a little longer is political handwaving at all. It doesn't matter if any 'deep and complex issues' are not addressed, whatever they are, its still a valid improvement over the status quo, however small. Yes, mandating 5 years of security updates isn't going to solve climate change or fix the economy, but it would extend the safe lifetime of most mid range phone by around two years and for the vast majority of users, that will be just fine. I know it is not that interesting to talk about small improvements, but a lot of politics is exactly about that: improving society with many thousands of very marginal steps. They are not a distraction, they are the work. I'm not a conservative, but this kind of pragmatism is what I feel used to be the true value of old school conservative politics, and it is deeply lacking its current form. Conservatism needs to be boring again.

Sayrus 1y ago

Not everyone has the financial capability to change their phone to follow trends, some people only buy second-hand, some people fall back on cheaper phones but change less often, some people rely on charity because their situation just doesn't allow them to fork the expense. Some people just want to keep their phone for long periods, I kept my last one 6 years and I only changed it because it died. I think all these people deserve to have a phone platform that doesn't abandon them because they can't or won't buy a flagship every year of two.

pjmlp 1y ago

In most European countries we tend to use pre-paid phones, not contracts that including replacing the phone every three years. Those do exist, but I doubt they much adopted in Southern Europe, outside the packages that include mobile phones, Internet and cable TV together, and not everyone is into them either.