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I'm confused. Why do you need aluminum to turn hydrogen plasma into hydrogen? Couldn't you wait for the plasma to cool down? Wait, where are you getting hydrog

I'm confused. Why do you need aluminum to turn hydrogen plasma into hydrogen? Couldn't you wait for the plasma to cool down? Wait, where are you getting hydrogen plasma? The sun?

westurner 1y ago
(H2O + Al + (H) + Electricity) => H, O2, HO, Al Couldn't the system be bootstrapped by scratching up an aluminum can, pouring in water, and turning a wheel with a handle or wind or water or gravity or so on? And then some (?) of the produced hydrogen would be used for hydrogen plasma to refinish the aluminum
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  The big question is whether such a process would give you a net gain or a net loss of hydrogen. You're going to lose hydrogen in the plasma process. Do you lose more from the refinishing than you gain from the rest of the process?
  - westurner 1y ago
    Whether the net yield of hydrogen (and nearly-sanitized H2O and Aluminum oxide slurry) is worth the squeeze. And, Is hydrogen plasma through and within the water worth it from a just hydrogen yield perspective? When I asked an AI about research in this - after an LLM suggested hydrogen plasma for deoxidizing titanium (instead of yttrium) the other day - there were a few results; which alone doesn't indicate viability. What do you do with the aluminum slurry from hydrogen plasma etching and IDK ultrasound? Ctrl-F aluminum: "Aluminum formate Al(HCOO)3: Earth-abundant, scalable, & material for CO2 capture" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33501189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33501189 .. https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-33501182 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-33501182 "Superconducting nanostrip single photon detectors made of aluminum thin-films" https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-42647229 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-42647229 "Green steel from red mud through climate-neutral hydrogen plasma reduction" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06901-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06901-z .. > Red mud [from aluminum production] consists of up to 60% iron oxide. Melting the mud in an electric arc furnace using a plasma containing 10% hydrogen reduces it to liquid iron and liquid oxides, allowing the iron to be easily extracted. The plasma reduction technique takes 10 minutes and produces iron so pure, say the researchers, it can be processed directly into steel. And the no-longer-corrosive metal oxides solidify on cooling, so they can be transformed into glass-like material that could be used as a filling material in the construction industry. ... "New stainless steel pulls green hydrogen directly out of seawater" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43991630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43991630

I'm confused. Why do you need aluminum to turn hydrogen plasma into hydrogen? Couldn't you wait for the plasma to cool down? Wait, where are you getting hydrogen plasma? The sun?

westurner 1y ago

(H2O + Al + (H) + Electricity) => H, O2, HO, Al Couldn't the system be bootstrapped by scratching up an aluminum can, pouring in water, and turning a wheel with a handle or wind or water or gravity or so on? And then some (?) of the produced hydrogen would be used for hydrogen plasma to refinish the aluminum

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
The big question is whether such a process would give you a net gain or a net loss of hydrogen. You're going to lose hydrogen in the plasma process. Do you lose more from the refinishing than you gain from the rest of the process?
- westurner 1y ago
  Whether the net yield of hydrogen (and nearly-sanitized H2O and Aluminum oxide slurry) is worth the squeeze. And, Is hydrogen plasma through and within the water worth it from a just hydrogen yield perspective? When I asked an AI about research in this - after an LLM suggested hydrogen plasma for deoxidizing titanium (instead of yttrium) the other day - there were a few results; which alone doesn't indicate viability. What do you do with the aluminum slurry from hydrogen plasma etching and IDK ultrasound? Ctrl-F aluminum: "Aluminum formate Al(HCOO)3: Earth-abundant, scalable, & material for CO2 capture" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33501189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33501189 .. https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-33501182 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-33501182 "Superconducting nanostrip single photon detectors made of aluminum thin-films" https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-42647229 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-42647229 "Green steel from red mud through climate-neutral hydrogen plasma reduction" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06901-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06901-z .. > Red mud [from aluminum production] consists of up to 60% iron oxide. Melting the mud in an electric arc furnace using a plasma containing 10% hydrogen reduces it to liquid iron and liquid oxides, allowing the iron to be easily extracted. The plasma reduction technique takes 10 minutes and produces iron so pure, say the researchers, it can be processed directly into steel. And the no-longer-corrosive metal oxides solidify on cooling, so they can be transformed into glass-like material that could be used as a filling material in the construction industry. ... "New stainless steel pulls green hydrogen directly out of seawater" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43991630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43991630