4 ms·

Art has no objective measure. I cannot stand classical music because it has very little rhythm and emotion compared to the other, more modern music I listen to.

by 65 1y ago

Art has no objective measure. I cannot stand classical music because it has very little rhythm and emotion compared to the other, more modern music I listen to. Does that make classical music worse? No. Just because something may have been popular in the past and is now seen as "smart" e.g. the opera, books, classical music, painting, does not make it better than what's popular now, e.g. television, video games, and rhythmic music. If anything I'd argue art has gotten significantly better and more advanced over the years. I don't play many video games but the combination of visual, auditory, interactivity, and storytelling still blows me away.

wbl 1y ago
Very little rhythm and emotion? First emotion https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFi-7H9TKs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFi-7H9TKs https://youtu.be/rVw6NRXSDhM?si=wchNK9I3RO_XJxeG https://youtu.be/rVw6NRXSDhM?si=wchNK9I3RO_XJxeG Rythym: let's start with the most infamous percussion sequence of all time https://youtu.be/wZtWAqc3qyk?si=B47DQZ1auKx53OaD https://youtu.be/wZtWAqc3qyk?si=B47DQZ1auKx53OaD Unless you're listening to extremely niche heavy metal, electronica, or the kind of jazz that they don't play on the radio you aren't listen to anything with the skill and complexity of classical. And the people who do also show up to new music. I don't think there is any video game that comes close in depth to the Ring Cycle.
- EdwardDiego 1y ago
  I thought you were going to link to the incessant ominous col legno (hitting the strings with the stick of the bow) at the start of Holst's Mars for rhythm, so please allow me to add that one to the list. https://youtu.be/cXOanvv4plU?si=WrIuBfmofTo6szRa https://youtu.be/cXOanvv4plU?si=WrIuBfmofTo6szRa And as for emotion, this version of the 1812 Overture always sends chills up my spine. https://youtu.be/uYnCCWsfx3c?si=OQEA5_JYpWn1kHFj https://youtu.be/uYnCCWsfx3c?si=OQEA5_JYpWn1kHFj
  - lucyjojo 1y ago
    All of this is immensely subjective. The pieces presented were utterly bland to me, bordering on the unlistenable. This is obviously not due to a lack of quality for they have plenty, but they register as little more than noise to my brain; to which i prefer silence... That said, I do enjoy some classical music. For instance, I deeply enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lvxx9lzAg&list=RDz1lvxx9lzAg&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lvxx9lzAg&list=RDz1lvxx9lz...
- 65 1y ago
  You didn't correctly read my comment. > Art has no objective measure. That would be emotion to _you_, not to me. You've also missed this point: > compared to the other, more modern music I listen to. Additionally, complexity is not an accurate measure of how "good" art is. But if you want to argue about complexity - and this would mean total complexity, not just sheer storytelling complexity, an easy refute to your point is GTA V, which is arguably one of the most complex pieces of art ever made.
  - bee_rider 1y ago
    I guess anything is arguable, but I think it would be pretty difficult to make a very good argument that GTA V is one of the most complex pieces of art ever made. I mean, first we’d have to define a piece of art, then we’d have to define what it “complexity” means in that context…
    - jl6 1y ago
      Eh, he’s right though. You could get sidetracked quibbling about the edges of the definitions, or you could just use their centers and see that there obviously are some modern works of art that are immense team efforts and substantially justify the label of “one of the most complex pieces of art ever”.
- ElFitz 1y ago
  I’d add to that that classical music was made at a time recording and listening whatever you want, whenever and wherever, wasn’t a thing. Many pieces were intended as a whole, and optimised for specific settings. I’ve long thought I wasn’t an opera person. I listened to pieces of some on my iPod, or on the tv in music class in school. Then, years later, some friend told me he had extra tickets for the opera. It hit very, very differently. It is likely the experiences I had gone through since school helped the opera’s theme and songs resonate with me. But I’m pretty sure listening and witnessing it, from beginning to end, in a room carefully crafted for this specific purpose and left little room for distractions contributed immensely.
7thaccount 1y ago
Art is indeed subjective, but saying classical music has no emotion is a pretty controversial opinion. I've wept from plenty of classical symphonies and don't know much about the genre. A lot of movies just aren't the same without some Hans Zimmerman or John Williams.
- pixelpoet 1y ago
  > saying classical music has no emotion is a pretty controversial opinion That's very clearly not what they said at all.
- HeartStrings 1y ago
  Hans and Williams aren’t classical music.
jmfldn 1y ago
Depends what we mean by better. If you prefer rock music to Bach then great. Enjoy! I love popular music and classical for different reasons But if we're talking skill, intellectual depth, craft, then there are objective criteria. Take Bach, his music is like a masterpiece of engineering with its unparalleled compositional complexity and craftsmanship. His mastery of counterpoint being but one example. His work represents a pinnacle of musical architecture, establishing foundational principles that profoundly influenced centuries of Western music. That just doesn't compare to most pop music does it?
- stirfish 1y ago
  Counterpoint is cool, but a lot of the time is carries the emotional weight of listening to someone solve sudoku. Objectively, Bach lacks the skill and emotional depth to write a song about that lonely feeling you get when you drink too much and get kicked out of the party (a foundational principal of Country Western music)
  - graycat 1y ago
    > Bach lacks the skill and emotional depth to write a song about that lonely feeling For a wide range of such feelings, some can regard as "lonely", as they develop, achieve a triumph, a catharsis, and finally a recapitulation and a comforting, secure resolution -- communication, interpretation of human experience, emotion, i.e., art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUYq5t-cCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUYq5t-cCM Bach wrote it for solo violin, but it's been arranged for solo piano, full orchestra, etc.

by 65 1y ago

wbl 1y ago

Very little rhythm and emotion? First emotion https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFi-7H9TKs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFi-7H9TKs https://youtu.be/rVw6NRXSDhM?si=wchNK9I3RO_XJxeG https://youtu.be/rVw6NRXSDhM?si=wchNK9I3RO_XJxeG Rythym: let's start with the most infamous percussion sequence of all time https://youtu.be/wZtWAqc3qyk?si=B47DQZ1auKx53OaD https://youtu.be/wZtWAqc3qyk?si=B47DQZ1auKx53OaD Unless you're listening to extremely niche heavy metal, electronica, or the kind of jazz that they don't play on the radio you aren't listen to anything with the skill and complexity of classical. And the people who do also show up to new music. I don't think there is any video game that comes close in depth to the Ring Cycle.

EdwardDiego 1y ago
I thought you were going to link to the incessant ominous col legno (hitting the strings with the stick of the bow) at the start of Holst's Mars for rhythm, so please allow me to add that one to the list. https://youtu.be/cXOanvv4plU?si=WrIuBfmofTo6szRa https://youtu.be/cXOanvv4plU?si=WrIuBfmofTo6szRa And as for emotion, this version of the 1812 Overture always sends chills up my spine. https://youtu.be/uYnCCWsfx3c?si=OQEA5_JYpWn1kHFj https://youtu.be/uYnCCWsfx3c?si=OQEA5_JYpWn1kHFj
- lucyjojo 1y ago
  All of this is immensely subjective. The pieces presented were utterly bland to me, bordering on the unlistenable. This is obviously not due to a lack of quality for they have plenty, but they register as little more than noise to my brain; to which i prefer silence... That said, I do enjoy some classical music. For instance, I deeply enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lvxx9lzAg&list=RDz1lvxx9lzAg&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lvxx9lzAg&list=RDz1lvxx9lz...
65 1y ago
You didn't correctly read my comment. > Art has no objective measure. That would be emotion to _you_, not to me. You've also missed this point: > compared to the other, more modern music I listen to. Additionally, complexity is not an accurate measure of how "good" art is. But if you want to argue about complexity - and this would mean total complexity, not just sheer storytelling complexity, an easy refute to your point is GTA V, which is arguably one of the most complex pieces of art ever made.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  I guess anything is arguable, but I think it would be pretty difficult to make a very good argument that GTA V is one of the most complex pieces of art ever made. I mean, first we’d have to define a piece of art, then we’d have to define what it “complexity” means in that context…
  - jl6 1y ago
    Eh, he’s right though. You could get sidetracked quibbling about the edges of the definitions, or you could just use their centers and see that there obviously are some modern works of art that are immense team efforts and substantially justify the label of “one of the most complex pieces of art ever”.
ElFitz 1y ago
I’d add to that that classical music was made at a time recording and listening whatever you want, whenever and wherever, wasn’t a thing. Many pieces were intended as a whole, and optimised for specific settings. I’ve long thought I wasn’t an opera person. I listened to pieces of some on my iPod, or on the tv in music class in school. Then, years later, some friend told me he had extra tickets for the opera. It hit very, very differently. It is likely the experiences I had gone through since school helped the opera’s theme and songs resonate with me. But I’m pretty sure listening and witnessing it, from beginning to end, in a room carefully crafted for this specific purpose and left little room for distractions contributed immensely.

7thaccount 1y ago

Art is indeed subjective, but saying classical music has no emotion is a pretty controversial opinion. I've wept from plenty of classical symphonies and don't know much about the genre. A lot of movies just aren't the same without some Hans Zimmerman or John Williams.

pixelpoet 1y ago
> saying classical music has no emotion is a pretty controversial opinion That's very clearly not what they said at all.
HeartStrings 1y ago
Hans and Williams aren’t classical music.

jmfldn 1y ago

Depends what we mean by better. If you prefer rock music to Bach then great. Enjoy! I love popular music and classical for different reasons But if we're talking skill, intellectual depth, craft, then there are objective criteria. Take Bach, his music is like a masterpiece of engineering with its unparalleled compositional complexity and craftsmanship. His mastery of counterpoint being but one example. His work represents a pinnacle of musical architecture, establishing foundational principles that profoundly influenced centuries of Western music. That just doesn't compare to most pop music does it?

stirfish 1y ago
Counterpoint is cool, but a lot of the time is carries the emotional weight of listening to someone solve sudoku. Objectively, Bach lacks the skill and emotional depth to write a song about that lonely feeling you get when you drink too much and get kicked out of the party (a foundational principal of Country Western music)
- graycat 1y ago
  > Bach lacks the skill and emotional depth to write a song about that lonely feeling For a wide range of such feelings, some can regard as "lonely", as they develop, achieve a triumph, a catharsis, and finally a recapitulation and a comforting, secure resolution -- communication, interpretation of human experience, emotion, i.e., art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUYq5t-cCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUYq5t-cCM Bach wrote it for solo violin, but it's been arranged for solo piano, full orchestra, etc.