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Genuinely curious, why aren't people allowed to say this is dystopian without getting flagged? What rule, specifically, does that violate? I think this is dyst

Genuinely curious, why aren't people allowed to say this is dystopian without getting flagged? What rule, specifically, does that violate? I think this is dystopian. Paying people to rat out their fellow citizens. Nightmarish. What if this idea was applied to the laws ICE is trying to enforce? Would you think that's dystopian?

rafram 1y ago
This program specifically fines businesses with fleets of commercial vehicles (delivery trucks, buses, et cetera) for illegal idling, and escalates the fines for repeat offenders. You can't report random individuals, nor would I really want to build an app for that. The point is to get businesses to stop polluting.
- gametorch 1y ago
  Okay, that makes it a little less dystopian. But you make money off people snitching. And you're setting the stage for something far worse, imo.
  - paulgb 1y ago
    I see where you’re coming from, but the alternatives are either that the law isn’t enforced, or the state ramps up its own surveillance, which is more dystopian to me. I see this as in the same vein as SEC whistleblower awards, which I’ve never heard described as dystopian. Businesses just don’t have the same expectation of privacy that individuals do.
    - gametorch 1y ago
      I mean, the law not being enforced is wayyyyyyyyy less dystopian than this app and the numerous other ones like it that are bound to spring up. I'd rather live in truck fumes than a hyper-automated snitch surveillance state.
      - bayruiner 1y ago
        [flagged]
      - octernion 1y ago
        you have like 50 comments in this thread whining about the law and desperately wanting businesses (not private individuals!) to idle their trucks next to schools. maybe take a break man. not healthy.
        gametorch 1y ago
        [flagged]
        octernion 1y ago
        it’s not working - it’s one of the highest ranking posts - and you really don’t want to go around admitting that. seriously, take a break.
        gametorch 1y ago
        Yep and I got an upvoted comment dissenting against all the authoritarian bootlickers in every single thread on this post. People agree with me. Even on the comments of mine that got flagged lol It even pissed people off enough that one of the mods started commenting about my own personal projects that have nothing to do with this lmao Oh and I guess it did work because now it's down to 28, almost off the front page. Much lower than where it was before
        octernion 1y ago
        [flagged]
        gametorch 1y ago
        > you are mad at not being able to poison the air of children lol you know you're the one acting in bad faith here. hope you feel better soon
  - nerevarthelame 1y ago
    Is it still "snitching" if the reporter, as the person breathing the unnecessarily polluted air, is a victim of the crime?
    - gametorch 1y ago
      Yes.
  - darkwater 1y ago
    Being about businesses only and no individuals makes all the difference in the world. Otherwise it should be seen as dystopian also the fact that you can call the police on your neighborhood because "you heard noises". I bet that the friction in the submission process was deliberately added to avoid abuses, but maybe it's just incompetence. Depending on the reason, this app can be either good or against the spirit of the rule.
  - temptemptemp111 1y ago
    [dead]
- EasyMark 1y ago
  it normalizes the process and app though, and reinforces reporting your neighbors to the government. Not something I like to see. It's one thing to report domestic abuse or a crack house; another to report someone double-parked for a couple of seconds or an idling truck via "a simple click on your phone, thank you citizen"
theyknowitsxmas 1y ago
[flagged]
- dang 1y ago
  This isn't trolls - it's people getting triggered by a provocative topic. For plenty of obvious reasons, different people have different reactions to this kind of thing. Btw, "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
  - theyknowitsxmas 1y ago
    Anything goes. All you need is $10, a few proxies and AI promps for viral marketing. Don't forget to flag posts you don't like with your sock puppet accounts.
    - dang 1y ago
      If you're sure about this, I'd like to see a link or two to specific cases.
      - theyknowitsxmas 1y ago
        [flagged]
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
Maybe a bunch of people just don't agree with your position. (If they're idling and I report them, I'm a snitch. If I don't, I get to breathe the pollution. Why is snitching worse than poisoning people in your city? Why should the snitch be the bad guy in that situation, rather than the polluter?)
- gametorch 1y ago
  False dichotomy. Both the snitch and the polluter are bad guys. If you want an example of widespread application of this idea in a society, look at China. I rest my case.
dang 1y ago
People are certainly allowed to say that. Your comment, for example, hasn't been flagged. However, a lot of the comments tending in that direction have been (1) generic and (2) flamebait and/or fulminatey, which are bad for HN threads and against the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you went on to post many of that type of comment yourself in this thread. Please don't do that again.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
bayruiner 1y ago
[flagged]
pvg 1y ago
You regularly spam a generic generative ai ‘art’ thing on this site so of all people it feels like you’d have a broader, less kneejerky and more charitable view of what use of the technology is ‘dystopian’
- sadhnmods 1y ago
  [dead]
- gametorch 1y ago
  That's a fair point. It's hard to assess whether I'm being honest with myself about that. But I know this app is truly evil in my system of morality. AI art can be very soulless. Very dehumanizing. In certain sense. But those two qualities are undeniably attached to surveillance states. In all senses. There is no argument against that.
  - pvg 1y ago
    It’s someone’s show hn for something that’s NYC law, designed to address a specific local problem. Calling this ‘evil’ is, at a minimum, unserious bombast which the site rules ask you to avoid, especially when discussing someone else’s work. You can critique the work without the Savonarola act. It also happens to be more effective that way so it’s in your own interest.
    - gametorch 1y ago
      I really am supportive of 99.9% of Show HNs, merely for the sake of the posters actually trying to build something This is one of the few things I feel very strongly about and I'm going to do everything in my power to stop it. His idea is actively harming what makes America a good place to live in. And his idea is what makes China a bad place to live in. I'm not just going to sit here and say nothing. I don't care if this negative EV for my own personal interests. I felt the need to speak up and people agree with me. Hopefully his post gets taken down.
      - 1y ago

rafram 1y ago

This program specifically fines businesses with fleets of commercial vehicles (delivery trucks, buses, et cetera) for illegal idling, and escalates the fines for repeat offenders. You can't report random individuals, nor would I really want to build an app for that. The point is to get businesses to stop polluting.

gametorch 1y ago
Okay, that makes it a little less dystopian. But you make money off people snitching. And you're setting the stage for something far worse, imo.
- paulgb 1y ago
  I see where you’re coming from, but the alternatives are either that the law isn’t enforced, or the state ramps up its own surveillance, which is more dystopian to me. I see this as in the same vein as SEC whistleblower awards, which I’ve never heard described as dystopian. Businesses just don’t have the same expectation of privacy that individuals do.
  - gametorch 1y ago
    I mean, the law not being enforced is wayyyyyyyyy less dystopian than this app and the numerous other ones like it that are bound to spring up. I'd rather live in truck fumes than a hyper-automated snitch surveillance state.
    - bayruiner 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - octernion 1y ago
      you have like 50 comments in this thread whining about the law and desperately wanting businesses (not private individuals!) to idle their trucks next to schools. maybe take a break man. not healthy.
      - gametorch 1y ago
        [flagged]
        octernion 1y ago
        it’s not working - it’s one of the highest ranking posts - and you really don’t want to go around admitting that. seriously, take a break.
        gametorch 1y ago
        Yep and I got an upvoted comment dissenting against all the authoritarian bootlickers in every single thread on this post. People agree with me. Even on the comments of mine that got flagged lol It even pissed people off enough that one of the mods started commenting about my own personal projects that have nothing to do with this lmao Oh and I guess it did work because now it's down to 28, almost off the front page. Much lower than where it was before
        octernion 1y ago
        [flagged]
        gametorch 1y ago
        > you are mad at not being able to poison the air of children lol you know you're the one acting in bad faith here. hope you feel better soon
- nerevarthelame 1y ago
  Is it still "snitching" if the reporter, as the person breathing the unnecessarily polluted air, is a victim of the crime?
  - gametorch 1y ago
    Yes.
- darkwater 1y ago
  Being about businesses only and no individuals makes all the difference in the world. Otherwise it should be seen as dystopian also the fact that you can call the police on your neighborhood because "you heard noises". I bet that the friction in the submission process was deliberately added to avoid abuses, but maybe it's just incompetence. Depending on the reason, this app can be either good or against the spirit of the rule.
- temptemptemp111 1y ago
  [dead]
EasyMark 1y ago
it normalizes the process and app though, and reinforces reporting your neighbors to the government. Not something I like to see. It's one thing to report domestic abuse or a crack house; another to report someone double-parked for a couple of seconds or an idling truck via "a simple click on your phone, thank you citizen"

theyknowitsxmas 1y ago

[flagged]

dang 1y ago
This isn't trolls - it's people getting triggered by a provocative topic. For plenty of obvious reasons, different people have different reactions to this kind of thing. Btw, "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
- theyknowitsxmas 1y ago
  Anything goes. All you need is $10, a few proxies and AI promps for viral marketing. Don't forget to flag posts you don't like with your sock puppet accounts.
  - dang 1y ago
    If you're sure about this, I'd like to see a link or two to specific cases.
    - theyknowitsxmas 1y ago
      [flagged]

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

Maybe a bunch of people just don't agree with your position. (If they're idling and I report them, I'm a snitch. If I don't, I get to breathe the pollution. Why is snitching worse than poisoning people in your city? Why should the snitch be the bad guy in that situation, rather than the polluter?)

gametorch 1y ago
False dichotomy. Both the snitch and the polluter are bad guys. If you want an example of widespread application of this idea in a society, look at China. I rest my case.

dang 1y ago

People are certainly allowed to say that. Your comment, for example, hasn't been flagged. However, a lot of the comments tending in that direction have been (1) generic and (2) flamebait and/or fulminatey, which are bad for HN threads and against the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you went on to post many of that type of comment yourself in this thread. Please don't do that again.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

bayruiner 1y ago

[flagged]

pvg 1y ago

You regularly spam a generic generative ai ‘art’ thing on this site so of all people it feels like you’d have a broader, less kneejerky and more charitable view of what use of the technology is ‘dystopian’

sadhnmods 1y ago
[dead]
gametorch 1y ago
That's a fair point. It's hard to assess whether I'm being honest with myself about that. But I know this app is truly evil in my system of morality. AI art can be very soulless. Very dehumanizing. In certain sense. But those two qualities are undeniably attached to surveillance states. In all senses. There is no argument against that.
- pvg 1y ago
  It’s someone’s show hn for something that’s NYC law, designed to address a specific local problem. Calling this ‘evil’ is, at a minimum, unserious bombast which the site rules ask you to avoid, especially when discussing someone else’s work. You can critique the work without the Savonarola act. It also happens to be more effective that way so it’s in your own interest.
  - gametorch 1y ago
    I really am supportive of 99.9% of Show HNs, merely for the sake of the posters actually trying to build something This is one of the few things I feel very strongly about and I'm going to do everything in my power to stop it. His idea is actively harming what makes America a good place to live in. And his idea is what makes China a bad place to live in. I'm not just going to sit here and say nothing. I don't care if this negative EV for my own personal interests. I felt the need to speak up and people agree with me. Hopefully his post gets taken down.
    - 1y ago