29 ms·

maybe in 11 to 15 years after eventual respective Democratic and a non-Trump Republican governments

by make3 1y ago

andrewflnr 1y ago
This is still very optimistic. The only reason this would work is that America's negotiating partners want to believe the change is real. The American people will remain roughly the same electorate that elected Trump (for a second term, after he incited an insurrection), so the danger will remain.
- make3 1y ago
  The hope would be that Trump would be seen as a one-in-a-kind terrible mix of both hyper-charismatic and negative, like Adolf Hitler
  - sanderjd 1y ago
    Very unlikely. He won twice and fully owns one of our two parties. Any hope for "he was an aberration" died last November.
  - andrewflnr 1y ago
    As long as we're Godwin-ing this conversation, Germany has publicly repented for the whole Hitler thing. Public, unified repudiation of Trump would be minimum bar for America to be taken seriously again. I don't see this happening in my lifetime.
    - pas 1y ago
      publicly repented? maybe, but what did it worth? please look at the people voting for AfD, also how many of them are people are falling left and right for the siren songs of various magical solutions and for the cults behind them.
      - andrewflnr 1y ago
        Yes, I've noticed AfD and I'm terrified of the future. But America, particularly the American right wing, has not even pretended to repent. And you'll notice I said it was necessary, not that it was sufficient (ed: actually I guess I wasn't super clear about that. This is clearer).
    - make3 1y ago
      It's going to cut short too many conversations I'm afraid if we stop talking about Trump every time he's compared to a despot
sanderjd 1y ago
The problem with this is that there is now absolutely no reason for anyone to think that any treaty or other agreement made with any US administration (of either party) will remain in force after the next administration takes power. Rebuilding any credibility internationally will require concerted effort by the legislative and judicial branches (and maybe states ratifying amendments) to rein in the currently out of control power of the executive.
yibg 1y ago
And then the next trump comes in and reneges on all the agreements. Would take a few decades of stability as has been carefully constructed by the US since world war 2.

maybe in 11 to 15 years after eventual respective Democratic and a non-Trump Republican governments

by make3 1y ago

maybe in 11 to 15 years after eventual respective Democratic and a non-Trump Republican governments

This is still very optimistic. The only reason this would work is that America's negotiating partners want to believe the change is real. The American people will remain roughly the same electorate that elected Trump (for a second term, after he incited an insurrection), so the danger will remain.

make3 1y ago
The hope would be that Trump would be seen as a one-in-a-kind terrible mix of both hyper-charismatic and negative, like Adolf Hitler
- sanderjd 1y ago
  Very unlikely. He won twice and fully owns one of our two parties. Any hope for "he was an aberration" died last November.
- andrewflnr 1y ago
  As long as we're Godwin-ing this conversation, Germany has publicly repented for the whole Hitler thing. Public, unified repudiation of Trump would be minimum bar for America to be taken seriously again. I don't see this happening in my lifetime.
  - pas 1y ago
    publicly repented? maybe, but what did it worth? please look at the people voting for AfD, also how many of them are people are falling left and right for the siren songs of various magical solutions and for the cults behind them.
    - andrewflnr 1y ago
      Yes, I've noticed AfD and I'm terrified of the future. But America, particularly the American right wing, has not even pretended to repent. And you'll notice I said it was necessary, not that it was sufficient (ed: actually I guess I wasn't super clear about that. This is clearer).
  - make3 1y ago
    It's going to cut short too many conversations I'm afraid if we stop talking about Trump every time he's compared to a despot

sanderjd 1y ago

The problem with this is that there is now absolutely no reason for anyone to think that any treaty or other agreement made with any US administration (of either party) will remain in force after the next administration takes power. Rebuilding any credibility internationally will require concerted effort by the legislative and judicial branches (and maybe states ratifying amendments) to rein in the currently out of control power of the executive.

yibg 1y ago

And then the next trump comes in and reneges on all the agreements. Would take a few decades of stability as has been carefully constructed by the US since world war 2.