5 ms·

While I disagree that “the publishers went woke” is a salient reason (or even true in any real sense), I give the essay props for resisting the urge to reduce a

While I disagree that “the publishers went woke” is a salient reason (or even true in any real sense), I give the essay props for resisting the urge to reduce a very complicated problem down to a single causal factor.

peacebeard 1y ago
Some better versions of this take might be “In the culture war many people are only willing to consume media that perfectly signals their virtues, so even innocuous content can seem antagonistic.” or “Our culture changed and I don’t like it anymore, get off my lawn.”
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  For the most part I think this culture war is a figment of the media's imagination/desire. I think people just don't want to read for the most part—even those who purchase the books.
  - gherkinnn 1y ago
    I find the culture war to exist primarily in the minds of the terminally online.
    - peacebeard 1y ago
      Maybe if you include "terminally watching the news on TV". But either way, it's a lot of people.
      - hotmeals 1y ago
        Most TV news now is talking about stuff in Twitter and I Can't Believe It's Not Twitter.
xhkkffbf 1y ago
My issue with the wokeness is that it makes the stories very predictable. One race of characters is pretty much bad. The other race needs some saviorism. It's not the message of wokeness that is boring, but the repetitive and insistent manner in which it is delivered.
- nottorp 1y ago
  Not the message, but the fact there's little else besides the message to keep you interested. As opposed, for example, to Richard Morgan's A Land Fit for Heroes. Where the main character is gay. He was persecuted for being gay. There are gay sex scenes. However this is not what the book is about. Stuff is happening in that series. He's the hero of a decent story. But then I'm talking about a fantasy series so it's not "literature" :)
- TimorousBestie 1y ago
  Was Tolkien woke? I wonder.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    Tolkien was super woke. He had men holding hands without wanting to fuck.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  > One race of characters is pretty much bad. The other race needs some saviorism. It's not the message of wokeness that is boring, but the repetitive and insistent manner in which it is delivered. This doesn't seem to be "wokeness" (whatever that means) so much as "shallow writing pandering to an editor somewhere who is obsessed with race but has no education to grapple with it".
brazzy 1y ago
It seems to me pretty clear that the article is arguing that "wokeness made fiction crap" is really just the most current result of "authors are optimizing for critics and editors, who are competing for status, and neither are interested in producing stuff readers like".
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  Just pointing out that publishers simply won't publish what doesn't cater to them, so we really can't measure what authors actually want to publish.
ethagnawl 1y ago
Those repeated allusions to how _we all know how publishing has gone woke_ really made me cringe.

peacebeard 1y ago

Some better versions of this take might be “In the culture war many people are only willing to consume media that perfectly signals their virtues, so even innocuous content can seem antagonistic.” or “Our culture changed and I don’t like it anymore, get off my lawn.”

MangoToupe 1y ago
For the most part I think this culture war is a figment of the media's imagination/desire. I think people just don't want to read for the most part—even those who purchase the books.
- gherkinnn 1y ago
  I find the culture war to exist primarily in the minds of the terminally online.
  - peacebeard 1y ago
    Maybe if you include "terminally watching the news on TV". But either way, it's a lot of people.
    - hotmeals 1y ago
      Most TV news now is talking about stuff in Twitter and I Can't Believe It's Not Twitter.

xhkkffbf 1y ago

My issue with the wokeness is that it makes the stories very predictable. One race of characters is pretty much bad. The other race needs some saviorism. It's not the message of wokeness that is boring, but the repetitive and insistent manner in which it is delivered.

nottorp 1y ago
Not the message, but the fact there's little else besides the message to keep you interested. As opposed, for example, to Richard Morgan's A Land Fit for Heroes. Where the main character is gay. He was persecuted for being gay. There are gay sex scenes. However this is not what the book is about. Stuff is happening in that series. He's the hero of a decent story. But then I'm talking about a fantasy series so it's not "literature" :)
TimorousBestie 1y ago
Was Tolkien woke? I wonder.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  Tolkien was super woke. He had men holding hands without wanting to fuck.
MangoToupe 1y ago
> One race of characters is pretty much bad. The other race needs some saviorism. It's not the message of wokeness that is boring, but the repetitive and insistent manner in which it is delivered. This doesn't seem to be "wokeness" (whatever that means) so much as "shallow writing pandering to an editor somewhere who is obsessed with race but has no education to grapple with it".

brazzy 1y ago

It seems to me pretty clear that the article is arguing that "wokeness made fiction crap" is really just the most current result of "authors are optimizing for critics and editors, who are competing for status, and neither are interested in producing stuff readers like".

MangoToupe 1y ago
Just pointing out that publishers simply won't publish what doesn't cater to them, so we really can't measure what authors actually want to publish.

ethagnawl 1y ago

Those repeated allusions to how _we all know how publishing has gone woke_ really made me cringe.