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> disable Hamas (who embeds amongst civilians) Hamas recruits among civilians. Radicalized civilians. And Israel has just radicalized even more Palestinians, c

by mcv 1y ago

> disable Hamas (who embeds amongst civilians) Hamas recruits among civilians. Radicalized civilians. And Israel has just radicalized even more Palestinians, creating even better recruiting ground for Hamas. Israel has supported Hamas because it's a very convenient enemy for them. Hamas wants to wipe Israel from the map, and to Israel, that means a powerful Hamas controlling Palestine justifies their wiping Palestine off the map. During the 1980s, when the PLO was the dominant force in Palestine and wanted a two-state solution, Israel supported the much less influential Hamas in order to undermine PLO's position. And I think in 2017, Israel asked Qatar to support Hamas. Note that the Netanyahu government only goes after the people on the ground, not the leadership abroad. And they clearly have no problem killing and radicalizing more Palestinian civilians.

senderista 1y ago
I kinda miss those secular Palestinian militants...
xdennis 1y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > before the Israeli response has a chance to radicalize them You… you think that was the start of the process?
zzzeek 1y ago
This is exactly what's happening and I wish people would say it more often. Plenty of reporting showed the IDF had indication oct 7 attacks were about to happen and warnings were ignored.
breppp 1y ago
> During the 1980s, when the PLO was the dominant force in Palestine and wanted a two-state solution, Israel supported the much less influential Hamas in order to undermine PLO's position. And I think in 2017, Israel asked Qatar to support Hamas You have got that the other way around. Hamas was founded in 1987 during the Intifada, before the PLO started supporting a two state solution in 1988. The reason the PLO made that shift was that it was in exile and a new leadership in Palestine was formed (including Hamas), and they were afraid they will lose relevancy. In 1987 and going forward Hamas fought Israel, so claiming Israel supported it is paradoxical. Qatari money was transferred to Hamas prior to any Israeli involvement as early as 2007, sometimes in cash through the tunnels. In 2017 the Palestinian Authority refused to transfer taxes collected to the Hamas Gaza government or pay Israel for Gaza's electricity, leading to an economical downturn in Gaza. Because of the pending humanitarian crisis that would probably end in starvation due to Gaza less than stellar economy, whose blame would be put on Israel as is accustomed, Qatar was used as a lesser evil solution. It allowed Israel not to directly fund the Hamas government, which except for its military wing, is also its schools, hospitals, municipal and all other civilians functions. The narrative you are repeating also repeats itself as Israel created Hezbollah or even as far as the US created ISIS, 9/11 was an inside job etc The source of this narrative in my opinion is the old racist imperialist narrative where the so-called natives are merely children incapable of agency. Here in the post colonialist sense, if there is any evil actor around, its actions or mere existence must quickly be attributed to the West/Israel, or else cognitive dissonance abounds
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
phatskat 1y ago
Let’s not forget that Benjamin Netanyahu even said once (that I know of from a recording) that the best thing for Israel is a strong Hamas.
- f1shy 1y ago
  I would really want to see that. Do you have a link?
  - phatskat 1y ago
    Found it! For reference, I originally heard this in the Some More News episodes about “Uncomplicating the complicated situation in the West Bank”, but I can’t find those episodes at the moment. > As far back as December 2012, Mr. Netanyahu told the prominent Israeli journalist Dan Margalit that it was important to keep Hamas strong, as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Mr. Margalit, in an interview, said that Mr. Netanyahu told him that having two strong rivals, including Hamas, would lessen pressure on him to negotiate toward a Palestinian state. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q...
    - f1shy 1y ago
      Thanks! I now understand the context.
ashoeafoot 1y ago
Israel under scharon has given gaza back including the settlements and got for that 700 civilians who followed the hamas members to murder, rape and kill children on the 7th October. Fuck all those fanatics ..
andsoitis 1y ago
> Note that the Netanyahu government only goes after the people on the ground, not the leadership abroad. Israel says it killed Iran's military co-ordinator with Hamas - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn9yxrxwzzzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn9yxrxwzzzo

by mcv 1y ago

senderista 1y ago

I kinda miss those secular Palestinian militants...

xdennis 1y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 1y ago
> before the Israeli response has a chance to radicalize them You… you think that was the start of the process?

zzzeek 1y ago

This is exactly what's happening and I wish people would say it more often. Plenty of reporting showed the IDF had indication oct 7 attacks were about to happen and warnings were ignored.

breppp 1y ago

> During the 1980s, when the PLO was the dominant force in Palestine and wanted a two-state solution, Israel supported the much less influential Hamas in order to undermine PLO's position. And I think in 2017, Israel asked Qatar to support Hamas You have got that the other way around. Hamas was founded in 1987 during the Intifada, before the PLO started supporting a two state solution in 1988. The reason the PLO made that shift was that it was in exile and a new leadership in Palestine was formed (including Hamas), and they were afraid they will lose relevancy. In 1987 and going forward Hamas fought Israel, so claiming Israel supported it is paradoxical. Qatari money was transferred to Hamas prior to any Israeli involvement as early as 2007, sometimes in cash through the tunnels. In 2017 the Palestinian Authority refused to transfer taxes collected to the Hamas Gaza government or pay Israel for Gaza's electricity, leading to an economical downturn in Gaza. Because of the pending humanitarian crisis that would probably end in starvation due to Gaza less than stellar economy, whose blame would be put on Israel as is accustomed, Qatar was used as a lesser evil solution. It allowed Israel not to directly fund the Hamas government, which except for its military wing, is also its schools, hospitals, municipal and all other civilians functions. The narrative you are repeating also repeats itself as Israel created Hezbollah or even as far as the US created ISIS, 9/11 was an inside job etc The source of this narrative in my opinion is the old racist imperialist narrative where the so-called natives are merely children incapable of agency. Here in the post colonialist sense, if there is any evil actor around, its actions or mere existence must quickly be attributed to the West/Israel, or else cognitive dissonance abounds

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

phatskat 1y ago

Let’s not forget that Benjamin Netanyahu even said once (that I know of from a recording) that the best thing for Israel is a strong Hamas.

f1shy 1y ago
I would really want to see that. Do you have a link?
- phatskat 1y ago
  Found it! For reference, I originally heard this in the Some More News episodes about “Uncomplicating the complicated situation in the West Bank”, but I can’t find those episodes at the moment. > As far back as December 2012, Mr. Netanyahu told the prominent Israeli journalist Dan Margalit that it was important to keep Hamas strong, as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Mr. Margalit, in an interview, said that Mr. Netanyahu told him that having two strong rivals, including Hamas, would lessen pressure on him to negotiate toward a Palestinian state. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q...
  - f1shy 1y ago
    Thanks! I now understand the context.

ashoeafoot 1y ago

Israel under scharon has given gaza back including the settlements and got for that 700 civilians who followed the hamas members to murder, rape and kill children on the 7th October. Fuck all those fanatics ..

andsoitis 1y ago

> Note that the Netanyahu government only goes after the people on the ground, not the leadership abroad. Israel says it killed Iran's military co-ordinator with Hamas - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn9yxrxwzzzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn9yxrxwzzzo