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Iran and Israel were allies before Iran was taken over by religious leaders. Even after that, Israel tried to keep the peace hoping that reasonable people would

by sfn42 1y ago

Iran and Israel were allies before Iran was taken over by religious leaders. Even after that, Israel tried to keep the peace hoping that reasonable people would take over again but they never did. Iran has been supplying and funding Hamas and other enemies of Israel for decades. In my mind there is no doubt who the good guys are in that particular conflict. Iran started it decades ago for no reason other than religious hate, has kept it up until now and Iran is the one escalating.

mafuy 1y ago
Maybe most of this is true, I don't know. I got the impression that both their governments are total shit. But you'll certainly have to agree that most of the escalation is due to Israel's action (not words) in attacking first and at a large scale.
- breppp 1y ago
  not really, the escalation started on October 7th 2023, which was financed and orchestrated by Iran.[1] An ongoing war that includes all of Iran proxies. [1] https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/activities-of-saeed-izadi-head-of-the-qods-forces-palestine-branch-reflected-in-captured-document/ https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/activities-of-saeed-iza...
rusk 1y ago
[flagged]
- breppp 1y ago
  and? did he hang homosexuals on cranes? cut the hands of thieves or rape protestors? I am pretty sure Iran's current regime wins the brutal dictatorship game
  - Fluorescence 1y ago
    The Shar's CIA trained secret police, SAVAK, tortured and murdered thousands and yes, they raped prisoners. The Federation of American Scientists reported their torture methods included: "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails".
    - breppp 1y ago
      so nothing changed then, hasn't it? except for the addition of some cruel medieval islamic punishments and the occasional intentional blinding of protestors
- inglor_cz 1y ago
  The Islamic Republic is absolutely brutal as well. The difference isn't in brutality. It is in the word "Islamic". That is the core of the ideological hostility of the current Iranian government towards Israel.
  - handfuloflight 1y ago
    What specific "Islamic" doctrines do they cite?
    - inglor_cz 1y ago
      I certainly don't feel expert enough to discuss the entirety of Khomeini's work, upon which the Islamic Republic of Iran was founded, including its foreign policy. But he was a bona fide scholar of Islam.
      - handfuloflight 1y ago
        I didn't ask you to discuss the entirety of it. I also have scholarship in Islamic Studies and am curious what doctrines. Surely you can cite one? As I haven't come across any that call for unrestricted violence against Jewish people. Or any people, for that matter.
        inglor_cz 1y ago
        I am not a scholar of Islam, but I am pretty sure that no core doctrine calls for the mere existence, much less outright political rule, of people called ayatollahs either. And yet here we are. Regardless of the above, the Islamic Republic of Iran calls itself Islamic and takes the velayat-e-faqih system, developed by Khomeini, as divinely inspired.
        handfuloflight 1y ago
        You now've just demolished your original argument, and here's the proof using your own words: You just admitted that the specific system of ayatollah rule has 'no core doctrine' supporting it. You acknowledged that this particular form of clerical authority is an innovation that doesn't exist in foundational Islamic teachings. Then you say Khomeini 'developed' velayat-e-faqih as a new system. So by your own admission: core Islamic doctrine doesn't support this specific form of clerical rule by ayatollahs; and that Khomeini had to 'develop' (i.e., invent) the velayat-e-faqih framework. So, Iran's system is based on this modern Shia innovation, not established Islamic governance models. But your original claim was that Iran's hostility toward Israel stems from 'Islamic' ideological doctrine. You can't have it both ways, either Iran's policies flow from broadly accepted Islamic teachings, or they flow from Khomeini's specific 20th-century innovation that most Muslims reject. You've just proven that Iran's system represents one minority sect's modern political invention, not mainstream Islamic doctrine. You don't need to be an Islamic scholar to know there are two major branches: Sunni and Shia. If you don't know this basic distinction, you shouldn't be making claims about 'Islam' generally. If you do know it, then you're being disingenuous trying to pass off one minority Shia innovation as representative of all Islam.
TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
Israel has also been funding Hamas and other enemies of Israel. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... Reality is Israel is run by psychopaths who would be in jail if it weren't for their their cynical use of constant war as a misdirection. Much like the US. And Russia. And numerous other countries, some of which are still pretending to be democratic. The entire world order is built on greed, lies, narcissistic grandiosity, and violent murder at industrial scales.
- rcpt 1y ago
  You're absolutely correct on this but because of the point you're making they've downvoted you into the grey
- globalnode 1y ago
  downvoted because truth hurts? lol, tough crowd here my friend.
  - handfuloflight 1y ago
    Cain has truly killed Abel.
- gitremote 1y ago
  > Reality is Israel is run by psychopaths who would be in jail if it weren't for their their cynical use of constant war as a misdirection. Israeli police began investigating Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu for fraud in 2016. Israeli courts indicted him for multiple cases of fraud in 2019. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu
- nl 1y ago
  > Israel has also been funding Hamas and other enemies of Israel. That's not what this article says. To quote: > Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. > Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products. > Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.
ivape 1y ago
You don’t need a lot of funding to convince 15 year olds in Palestine to go murder. Pay closer attention to the settlements, it did more for mobilizing Israel’s enemies than any amount of psyops or military funding could ever do. It’s very clear to me Israel has had some of the most retarded foreign policy experts for decades now. The truth is the same truth we have in the U.S, 70+ million that voted for Trump harbor a higher degree of racism that is near impossible to stop (will take generations). Israelis HATE Palestinians, and therefore they cannot make even the most obvious game theory choices on building better safety environments (finance and launch a multi decade campaign to uplift Gaza from poverty of mind, heart, and material - unless you are fucking racist and would rather live in conflict than EVER give an inch.)
- scotty79 1y ago
  > It’s very clear to me Israel has had some of the most retarded foreign policy experts for decades now. Well, it's outcome of how they were treated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War If everybody hates you anyways you eventually morph into the thing that deserves that hatred.
belter 1y ago
> Iran has been supplying and funding Hamas Qatar has probably funded Hamas more than Iran and now the future Air Force One is a Qatari plane... “Qatar has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level” - Donald J. Trump - June 2017 "Qatar has been a key financial supporter of the Palestinian militant organization Hamas, transferring more than $1.8 billion to Hamas over the years..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_support_for_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_support_for_Hamas
- ta1243 1y ago
  The Don in charge of the USA isn't concerned about the money goes to Hamas, he just wants his slice. Qatar knows that and can respect that.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    Unfortunately for basically everyone, this suggests a quick-win strategy for Iran: Bribe Trump, personally, with lots money or equivalent, to literally nuke Israel. What's wrong with this picture? (And I don't mean in the sense of a Futurama meme of Farnsworth saying "I don't want to live on this planet any more").
    - matthewdgreen 1y ago
      This would absolutely work if the other gulf states weren't prepared to bribe him much, much more to prevent it. And yes, it is dismal. We are essentially run by foreign countries until January 20, 2029.

by sfn42 1y ago

mafuy 1y ago

Maybe most of this is true, I don't know. I got the impression that both their governments are total shit. But you'll certainly have to agree that most of the escalation is due to Israel's action (not words) in attacking first and at a large scale.

breppp 1y ago
not really, the escalation started on October 7th 2023, which was financed and orchestrated by Iran.[1] An ongoing war that includes all of Iran proxies. [1] https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/activities-of-saeed-izadi-head-of-the-qods-forces-palestine-branch-reflected-in-captured-document/ https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/activities-of-saeed-iza...

rusk 1y ago

[flagged]

breppp 1y ago
and? did he hang homosexuals on cranes? cut the hands of thieves or rape protestors? I am pretty sure Iran's current regime wins the brutal dictatorship game
- Fluorescence 1y ago
  The Shar's CIA trained secret police, SAVAK, tortured and murdered thousands and yes, they raped prisoners. The Federation of American Scientists reported their torture methods included: "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails".
  - breppp 1y ago
    so nothing changed then, hasn't it? except for the addition of some cruel medieval islamic punishments and the occasional intentional blinding of protestors
inglor_cz 1y ago
The Islamic Republic is absolutely brutal as well. The difference isn't in brutality. It is in the word "Islamic". That is the core of the ideological hostility of the current Iranian government towards Israel.
- handfuloflight 1y ago
  What specific "Islamic" doctrines do they cite?
  - inglor_cz 1y ago
    I certainly don't feel expert enough to discuss the entirety of Khomeini's work, upon which the Islamic Republic of Iran was founded, including its foreign policy. But he was a bona fide scholar of Islam.
    - handfuloflight 1y ago
      I didn't ask you to discuss the entirety of it. I also have scholarship in Islamic Studies and am curious what doctrines. Surely you can cite one? As I haven't come across any that call for unrestricted violence against Jewish people. Or any people, for that matter.
      - inglor_cz 1y ago
        I am not a scholar of Islam, but I am pretty sure that no core doctrine calls for the mere existence, much less outright political rule, of people called ayatollahs either. And yet here we are. Regardless of the above, the Islamic Republic of Iran calls itself Islamic and takes the velayat-e-faqih system, developed by Khomeini, as divinely inspired.
        handfuloflight 1y ago
        You now've just demolished your original argument, and here's the proof using your own words: You just admitted that the specific system of ayatollah rule has 'no core doctrine' supporting it. You acknowledged that this particular form of clerical authority is an innovation that doesn't exist in foundational Islamic teachings. Then you say Khomeini 'developed' velayat-e-faqih as a new system. So by your own admission: core Islamic doctrine doesn't support this specific form of clerical rule by ayatollahs; and that Khomeini had to 'develop' (i.e., invent) the velayat-e-faqih framework. So, Iran's system is based on this modern Shia innovation, not established Islamic governance models. But your original claim was that Iran's hostility toward Israel stems from 'Islamic' ideological doctrine. You can't have it both ways, either Iran's policies flow from broadly accepted Islamic teachings, or they flow from Khomeini's specific 20th-century innovation that most Muslims reject. You've just proven that Iran's system represents one minority sect's modern political invention, not mainstream Islamic doctrine. You don't need to be an Islamic scholar to know there are two major branches: Sunni and Shia. If you don't know this basic distinction, you shouldn't be making claims about 'Islam' generally. If you do know it, then you're being disingenuous trying to pass off one minority Shia innovation as representative of all Islam.

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago

Israel has also been funding Hamas and other enemies of Israel. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... Reality is Israel is run by psychopaths who would be in jail if it weren't for their their cynical use of constant war as a misdirection. Much like the US. And Russia. And numerous other countries, some of which are still pretending to be democratic. The entire world order is built on greed, lies, narcissistic grandiosity, and violent murder at industrial scales.

rcpt 1y ago
You're absolutely correct on this but because of the point you're making they've downvoted you into the grey
globalnode 1y ago
downvoted because truth hurts? lol, tough crowd here my friend.
- handfuloflight 1y ago
  Cain has truly killed Abel.
gitremote 1y ago
> Reality is Israel is run by psychopaths who would be in jail if it weren't for their their cynical use of constant war as a misdirection. Israeli police began investigating Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu for fraud in 2016. Israeli courts indicted him for multiple cases of fraud in 2019. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu
nl 1y ago
> Israel has also been funding Hamas and other enemies of Israel. That's not what this article says. To quote: > Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. > Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products. > Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.

ivape 1y ago

You don’t need a lot of funding to convince 15 year olds in Palestine to go murder. Pay closer attention to the settlements, it did more for mobilizing Israel’s enemies than any amount of psyops or military funding could ever do. It’s very clear to me Israel has had some of the most retarded foreign policy experts for decades now. The truth is the same truth we have in the U.S, 70+ million that voted for Trump harbor a higher degree of racism that is near impossible to stop (will take generations). Israelis HATE Palestinians, and therefore they cannot make even the most obvious game theory choices on building better safety environments (finance and launch a multi decade campaign to uplift Gaza from poverty of mind, heart, and material - unless you are fucking racist and would rather live in conflict than EVER give an inch.)

scotty79 1y ago
> It’s very clear to me Israel has had some of the most retarded foreign policy experts for decades now. Well, it's outcome of how they were treated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War If everybody hates you anyways you eventually morph into the thing that deserves that hatred.

belter 1y ago

> Iran has been supplying and funding Hamas Qatar has probably funded Hamas more than Iran and now the future Air Force One is a Qatari plane... “Qatar has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level” - Donald J. Trump - June 2017 "Qatar has been a key financial supporter of the Palestinian militant organization Hamas, transferring more than $1.8 billion to Hamas over the years..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_support_for_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_support_for_Hamas

ta1243 1y ago
The Don in charge of the USA isn't concerned about the money goes to Hamas, he just wants his slice. Qatar knows that and can respect that.
- ben_w 1y ago
  Unfortunately for basically everyone, this suggests a quick-win strategy for Iran: Bribe Trump, personally, with lots money or equivalent, to literally nuke Israel. What's wrong with this picture? (And I don't mean in the sense of a Futurama meme of Farnsworth saying "I don't want to live on this planet any more").
  - matthewdgreen 1y ago
    This would absolutely work if the other gulf states weren't prepared to bribe him much, much more to prevent it. And yes, it is dismal. We are essentially run by foreign countries until January 20, 2029.