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But the GP is not saying the election wasn't valid, they're saying the guy was misrepresenting himself. I hate the US meddling as much as the next guy, but why

But the GP is not saying the election wasn't valid, they're saying the guy was misrepresenting himself. I hate the US meddling as much as the next guy, but why is the solution to that problem "just endure four years of destruction until he leaves"?

lenkite 1y ago
All politicians "mispresent themselves". Kicking them out during elections is the way they are thrown out in a functioning democracy. Or do you believe Americans should storm the White House and beat up the President anytime a campaign promise is broken ? And one that is magnified by the funding and urging of a foreign government ? Such actions - which break the "deal of democracy" naturally lead to civil war - which is exactly what happened in Ukraine.
- stavros 1y ago
  I don't care what Americans do, but I'd quite like to storm our parliament and kick out the current government.
- motorest 1y ago
  > All politicians "mispresent themselves". No. The ones that try to push agendas that go against their programme and are deeply unpopular will often see public protests and even general strikes demanding policy reversals or governments stepping down. Do you call those regime changes as well?
- tguvot 1y ago
  you neglect to mention that those were peaceful protests till protestors (mostly students) got brutal beat down by police (on advise of russian advisors). after this protests "for eu integration" moved to protests against brutality and when police escalate more it became "ant-regime" protest
  - lenkite 1y ago
    Sorry, I just had to respond to this ridiculous assertion..your "peaceful protestors" were building and firing slingshots, molotov cocktails and even DIY rocket launchers - they were even fawned upon and idolized by the Western press for this. You do that in any nation and you will get a beating from the police. You do that in the US and you will be rapidly sent to the after-life. Hell, several people even made a giant catapult on-site (props given for engineering knowledge though). What surprised me at that time watching is that the Ukrainian police were so tolerant of rocks falling on them. American police would have immediately opened fire. Of-course, that tolerance didn't last long once policemen started taking casualties.
    - tguvot 1y ago
      what you describe, happened much later. initially it was just students who protested. peacefully. police beat them down. after this to maidan came adults (because it's not appropriate to brutalize children ) and started camping there. and later it escalated to what you wrote about when police (based on government orders based on russian suggestions) tried to disperse maidan camp. you probably didn't watch it from the very beginning. I did. in ukrainian.
- const_cast 1y ago
  No, I disagree. The right to protest, assemble, and even impeach representatives is just as paramount to democracy as voting. There's no rule anywhere that you just have to endure a poor leader - especially a leader who is leaning towards harming or removing democracy.
spacecadet 1y ago
I agree with you.
m000 1y ago
> they're saying the guy was misrepresenting himself You mean like "peacemaker"/"America First" Donald Trump? > why is the solution to that problem "just endure four years of destruction until he leaves"? If Americans can wait out for the second Trump term to be over, Ukrainians could do it too for Yanukovych.
- stavros 1y ago
  Yeah I disagree that Americans should wait it out.
  - m000 1y ago
    Fair enough :)
tsimionescu 1y ago
I'm not 100% sure of Ukraine, but most democracies have a legal way to impeach a sitting president. If Yanukovich was committing literal treason, acting on behalf of a foreign country, there should have been a slam dunk case for impeachment.
- stavros 1y ago
  Our government killed 50 people in a train accident because they couldn't be bothered to maintain the safety systems, then immediately ordered crews to the site to cover everything up with dirt so there would be no trace of fuel additives being illegally transported on a passenger train. The courts found no wrongdoing, and they're still in power. Who's going to impeach them?

lenkite 1y ago

All politicians "mispresent themselves". Kicking them out during elections is the way they are thrown out in a functioning democracy. Or do you believe Americans should storm the White House and beat up the President anytime a campaign promise is broken ? And one that is magnified by the funding and urging of a foreign government ? Such actions - which break the "deal of democracy" naturally lead to civil war - which is exactly what happened in Ukraine.

stavros 1y ago
I don't care what Americans do, but I'd quite like to storm our parliament and kick out the current government.
motorest 1y ago
> All politicians "mispresent themselves". No. The ones that try to push agendas that go against their programme and are deeply unpopular will often see public protests and even general strikes demanding policy reversals or governments stepping down. Do you call those regime changes as well?
tguvot 1y ago
you neglect to mention that those were peaceful protests till protestors (mostly students) got brutal beat down by police (on advise of russian advisors). after this protests "for eu integration" moved to protests against brutality and when police escalate more it became "ant-regime" protest
- lenkite 1y ago
  Sorry, I just had to respond to this ridiculous assertion..your "peaceful protestors" were building and firing slingshots, molotov cocktails and even DIY rocket launchers - they were even fawned upon and idolized by the Western press for this. You do that in any nation and you will get a beating from the police. You do that in the US and you will be rapidly sent to the after-life. Hell, several people even made a giant catapult on-site (props given for engineering knowledge though). What surprised me at that time watching is that the Ukrainian police were so tolerant of rocks falling on them. American police would have immediately opened fire. Of-course, that tolerance didn't last long once policemen started taking casualties.
  - tguvot 1y ago
    what you describe, happened much later. initially it was just students who protested. peacefully. police beat them down. after this to maidan came adults (because it's not appropriate to brutalize children ) and started camping there. and later it escalated to what you wrote about when police (based on government orders based on russian suggestions) tried to disperse maidan camp. you probably didn't watch it from the very beginning. I did. in ukrainian.
const_cast 1y ago
No, I disagree. The right to protest, assemble, and even impeach representatives is just as paramount to democracy as voting. There's no rule anywhere that you just have to endure a poor leader - especially a leader who is leaning towards harming or removing democracy.

spacecadet 1y ago

I agree with you.

m000 1y ago

> they're saying the guy was misrepresenting himself You mean like "peacemaker"/"America First" Donald Trump? > why is the solution to that problem "just endure four years of destruction until he leaves"? If Americans can wait out for the second Trump term to be over, Ukrainians could do it too for Yanukovych.

stavros 1y ago
Yeah I disagree that Americans should wait it out.
- m000 1y ago
  Fair enough :)

tsimionescu 1y ago

I'm not 100% sure of Ukraine, but most democracies have a legal way to impeach a sitting president. If Yanukovich was committing literal treason, acting on behalf of a foreign country, there should have been a slam dunk case for impeachment.

stavros 1y ago
Our government killed 50 people in a train accident because they couldn't be bothered to maintain the safety systems, then immediately ordered crews to the site to cover everything up with dirt so there would be no trace of fuel additives being illegally transported on a passenger train. The courts found no wrongdoing, and they're still in power. Who's going to impeach them?