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There is a difference between being friendly to Israel, and putting Israel's wellbeing above US interests. When American elected representatives state the Ameri

There is a difference between being friendly to Israel, and putting Israel's wellbeing above US interests. When American elected representatives state the American capitol can burn as long as Israel flourishes, do you believe these representatives have our best interest in their heart, or are they answering to rich donors (AIPAC) who could destroy them whenever they so choose? A subjugated slave may think highly of his master as Voltaire used to say, it does not alter the fact he is a slave with a master. There are those who wish to believe America gains from Israel (whether it is intel, or a satellite in that region of the world, etc), which justifies funding it. That is the greatest lie ever told. America is a slave to Israeli interests, nothing more. There could be a million USS Liberty and Rachel Corrie incidents, and it does not alter the hierarchy of the status quo: America serves Israel. We can put a spin on it to sleep warmly at night, but make no mistake of who is the master in this relationship, and who is the subjugated servant.

Quarrelsome 1y ago
In the video you linked, I think she was being hyperbolic in order to stress the level of support that the US has for Israel. I don't think she meant it literally. If the US's support for Israel ever hurt the USA in places that it genuinely cared about, then I think you'd see its support for Israel diminish or even dissipate. As it stands support for Israel is very convenient for the US industrial military complex and the USA's long-term strategic objectives in the Middle East which IMHO are large factors in its willingness to support it.
- MPSFounder 1y ago
  I disagree. She was speaking to an Israeli lobby and was being truthful (her legislative work has been as pro Israel as they come). I think it is important for the rest of us to recognize that Jews are very attached to Israel, and while they may be fine Americans (and are a major part of our country), it is also important to recognize when decisions advocated by rich and powerful forces (such as recent arrests of college students exerting their first amendment rights) are alien to who we are and our values. If we are unable to object to actions that harm these United States, then we have failed to serve our country. I have read a lot of non-fiction relating to Carter and Nixon (autobiography and secondary sources), and they both highlight the pressure they faced to serve Israel, taking actions that were not favorable to the US at the time because of powerful lobbies. Ignoring this problem will continue to do America great harm, for it is American soldiers that serve in these wars (Israelis have bunkers we have funded through our taxes and free healthcare), American blood that gets spilled (Iran and Iraq are examples), and American values that are sacrificed (the maiming of children is not an American value, and I define American to be that view the founding fathers had, not the recent view that has been stained by these very lobby efforts).
  - Quarrelsome 1y ago
    I don't entirely disagree with your perspective but the idea that Israel is more important than the USA to American politicians just sounds absurd. It makes me worry about an overly Israel-centric view of the world where all issues stem from one bad guy. I feel like the world is usually a bit more complicated than that with multiple competing interests contributing to outcomes.

Quarrelsome 1y ago

In the video you linked, I think she was being hyperbolic in order to stress the level of support that the US has for Israel. I don't think she meant it literally. If the US's support for Israel ever hurt the USA in places that it genuinely cared about, then I think you'd see its support for Israel diminish or even dissipate. As it stands support for Israel is very convenient for the US industrial military complex and the USA's long-term strategic objectives in the Middle East which IMHO are large factors in its willingness to support it.

MPSFounder 1y ago
I disagree. She was speaking to an Israeli lobby and was being truthful (her legislative work has been as pro Israel as they come). I think it is important for the rest of us to recognize that Jews are very attached to Israel, and while they may be fine Americans (and are a major part of our country), it is also important to recognize when decisions advocated by rich and powerful forces (such as recent arrests of college students exerting their first amendment rights) are alien to who we are and our values. If we are unable to object to actions that harm these United States, then we have failed to serve our country. I have read a lot of non-fiction relating to Carter and Nixon (autobiography and secondary sources), and they both highlight the pressure they faced to serve Israel, taking actions that were not favorable to the US at the time because of powerful lobbies. Ignoring this problem will continue to do America great harm, for it is American soldiers that serve in these wars (Israelis have bunkers we have funded through our taxes and free healthcare), American blood that gets spilled (Iran and Iraq are examples), and American values that are sacrificed (the maiming of children is not an American value, and I define American to be that view the founding fathers had, not the recent view that has been stained by these very lobby efforts).
- Quarrelsome 1y ago
  I don't entirely disagree with your perspective but the idea that Israel is more important than the USA to American politicians just sounds absurd. It makes me worry about an overly Israel-centric view of the world where all issues stem from one bad guy. I feel like the world is usually a bit more complicated than that with multiple competing interests contributing to outcomes.