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"Apple products are a jail that looks very nice, but its a jail anyway." Please clarify this. I don't feel more restricted with my MacBook Pro than I did with

by Zirro 14y ago

"Apple products are a jail that looks very nice, but its a jail anyway." Please clarify this. I don't feel more restricted with my MacBook Pro than I did with my old Lenovo-laptop. In what way was it a jail to you?

pooriaazimi 14y ago
Come on... You know what he's going to say. What's the point of asking? It just wastes yours and his/hers time.
- epistasis 14y ago
  I honestly don't know what he's going to say, or how he thought it was a jail, and would like to know.
  - alberich 14y ago
    I just couldn't install any other usable operating system on the hardware other then Apple's OS. The specifications were closed, you couldn't get much anything useful installed on it because it depended on proprietary software that, of course, only worked on OS X. edit: besides, things don't look much better nowdays, eh?
    - pooriaazimi 14y ago
      > you couldn't get much anything useful installed on it I have node, redis, mysql, couchdb, mongodb, autoconf/automake/cmake, ffmpeg, erlang, git, hg, gnuplot, groovy, memchaced, lua, lynx, lib* (a million of them), nmap, rabbitmq, phantomjs, postgresql, siege, httpd, squid, spidermonkey, coffee-script, mit-scheme,pcre, lkgconfig, mosh, HTTPie, python, ruby, cairo, pango, x11 installed on my OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion (among other tools that I've forgot or don't use regularly). And I'm not even a "pro" user - just a regular developer. But your requirements clearly differs from mine. Because you don't find them "useful". It's okay, not all of us use the same tools. But I'm sure the majority of developers use the aforementioned tools, and care less about kernel programming or other things that can't be done on a MacBook as efficiently as on ThinkPads (although Torvalds uses an Air).
    - Zirro 14y ago
      "besides, things don't look much better nowdays, eh?" Sure they do. I can run both Linux and Windows without virtualization, and Apple even supports the latter officially through the Boot Camp-application.
    - alberich 14y ago
      I can't reply to Zirro's and pooriaazimi's posts, so I'll answear here. Zirro: that is good to know. I wish it was the same with the IPad. Owning your hardware, in the sense that you can install alternative stuff on it, is very important for me. pooriaazimi: the point was about the power to install anything, including a different OS. If it is like Zirro said, it is sure a big improvement on the desktop/laptop category. Sadly the IPad doesn't offer you the freedom for using anything that is not from Apple. I don't care much about it, because the IPad isn't mine anyways. I just wouldn't buy it if I had to choose (Android's devices look much more open). ps. I'm sorry if I offended some people, it was not my intention. cheers :)
    - encoderer 14y ago
      Why on Earth did you buy it if that isn't what you wanted? It's like buying a hardcover book and complaining that you couldn't get it to be any other book. They're not selling iOS devices as hobbyist machines for tinkerers. You buy an iPhone to be an iPhone, an iPad to be an iPad. That's not a bad thing, it's an attribute of the product you bought as much as its price and processor.
    - anu_gupta 14y ago
      I'm replying to you from Windows 7 running natively on my MacBook via Bootcamp. What's your point, exactly?
    - bsg75 14y ago
      I would be curious for some example of non-proprietary software you could install on Linux that would not work in one of the many options available to OS X users: homebrew/macports/fink, dual-boot (or replace the OS), virtualization, or just build from source.
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    Here's a list of keywords. Just feed them to a generic Markov random sentence generator and you'll get your response: Gatekeeper, walled-garden App Store, iOSification, hardware obsolescence in 4-5 years, closed-source, GPL, soldered RAM and SSD and battery, overpriced, eye-candy, skeuomorphism, big brother, reality-distortion-field. I don't want to be a jerk or offend "alberich", but I strongly disagree with him.
    - alberich 14y ago
      That's ok, I believe we can agree to disagree :)
paulgb 14y ago
The comment was made about an iOS device, which it is more applicable too. Apple has a monopoly on legit iOS App distribution, where Android tablets and phones can install apps from the wild. It may sound like a small point, but the feeling that I didn't own my iPhone is a big reason I prefer Android.
- axxl 14y ago
  Long time ago I had an ibook g4. Supposedly it was very nice back then, and very pricey too. However, after playing with it sometime, it just looked cute. Overpriced and cute. Apple products are a jail that looks very nice, but its a jail anyway. He comments first about the laptops. About laptops before the Mac App Store even...
- Zirro 14y ago
  I can agree with it in the case of an iOS-device, but in this case he said "Long time ago I had an ibook g4". I am starting to get pretty tired of hearing that the products I use every day for professional work are toys, that I gave up my freedom to use them and worship Apple etc etc.
  - Dramatize 14y ago
    I agree. I was a Windows user for most of my life. Now that Apple products are better, I'll use them. If something else comes along that's new and better, I'll use that.
    - joelhooks 14y ago
      Exactly. I don't pick my tools based on dogma. I like to have the best tools I can afford when I need them.
- nirvana 14y ago
  > Apple has a monopoly on legit iOS App distribution, I know why you think that, but you're missing that there is a completely legitimate app distribution mechanism outside the AppStore. You can install (and distribute) whatever apps you want for iOS devices, and users can download them from the web and install them on the device. And I'm not talking about jailbreaking. Since the first day the iPhone has shipped, you've been able to download and install apps built with javascript from anywhere on the web. These are full apps, written in Javascript and running on the machine. They have access to the iOS design components such as the navigation controller and tab bar UI, etc, can read touches and orientation and even your current location. You can turn off the network- put the device in airport mode- and they still run. These aren't links to web apps running on the web, they are full apps. Apple only curates what goes on in the App Store. Apps distributed outside the App Store are not curated. Apple built this platform for apps specifically so it wouldn't have to curate them. Its just that once the App Store came out, everyone switched to writing native apps (And at the time, writing native apps are what people were clamoring for) that that native app distirbution model won out. But the javascript app platform is still there on the device and completely un-regulated by apple. It's also still supported by Apple, and each year at WWDC they have a couple sessions talking about it. I know it fits some people's ideology better to believe that Apple will only let you run apps approved by Apple on your device, but it simply isn't true. Further, if you want native apps of arbitrary origin, you can join the developer program and run whatever native apps you want. But Apple has always allowed this other distribution mechanism. These apps can't spread malware and so there is no need to regulate them. Since native apps can, they need to be curated, hence the AppStore. It is disingenuous for people to pretend like Apple only wants you to buy apps from the AppStore-- because the javascript app platform has existed since a year before the AppStore and they continue to maintain it.

by Zirro 14y ago

pooriaazimi 14y ago

Come on... You know what he's going to say. What's the point of asking? It just wastes yours and his/hers time.

epistasis 14y ago
I honestly don't know what he's going to say, or how he thought it was a jail, and would like to know.
- alberich 14y ago
  I just couldn't install any other usable operating system on the hardware other then Apple's OS. The specifications were closed, you couldn't get much anything useful installed on it because it depended on proprietary software that, of course, only worked on OS X. edit: besides, things don't look much better nowdays, eh?
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    > you couldn't get much anything useful installed on it I have node, redis, mysql, couchdb, mongodb, autoconf/automake/cmake, ffmpeg, erlang, git, hg, gnuplot, groovy, memchaced, lua, lynx, lib* (a million of them), nmap, rabbitmq, phantomjs, postgresql, siege, httpd, squid, spidermonkey, coffee-script, mit-scheme,pcre, lkgconfig, mosh, HTTPie, python, ruby, cairo, pango, x11 installed on my OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion (among other tools that I've forgot or don't use regularly). And I'm not even a "pro" user - just a regular developer. But your requirements clearly differs from mine. Because you don't find them "useful". It's okay, not all of us use the same tools. But I'm sure the majority of developers use the aforementioned tools, and care less about kernel programming or other things that can't be done on a MacBook as efficiently as on ThinkPads (although Torvalds uses an Air).
  - Zirro 14y ago
    "besides, things don't look much better nowdays, eh?" Sure they do. I can run both Linux and Windows without virtualization, and Apple even supports the latter officially through the Boot Camp-application.
  - alberich 14y ago
    I can't reply to Zirro's and pooriaazimi's posts, so I'll answear here. Zirro: that is good to know. I wish it was the same with the IPad. Owning your hardware, in the sense that you can install alternative stuff on it, is very important for me. pooriaazimi: the point was about the power to install anything, including a different OS. If it is like Zirro said, it is sure a big improvement on the desktop/laptop category. Sadly the IPad doesn't offer you the freedom for using anything that is not from Apple. I don't care much about it, because the IPad isn't mine anyways. I just wouldn't buy it if I had to choose (Android's devices look much more open). ps. I'm sorry if I offended some people, it was not my intention. cheers :)
  - encoderer 14y ago
    Why on Earth did you buy it if that isn't what you wanted? It's like buying a hardcover book and complaining that you couldn't get it to be any other book. They're not selling iOS devices as hobbyist machines for tinkerers. You buy an iPhone to be an iPhone, an iPad to be an iPad. That's not a bad thing, it's an attribute of the product you bought as much as its price and processor.
  - anu_gupta 14y ago
    I'm replying to you from Windows 7 running natively on my MacBook via Bootcamp. What's your point, exactly?
  - bsg75 14y ago
    I would be curious for some example of non-proprietary software you could install on Linux that would not work in one of the many options available to OS X users: homebrew/macports/fink, dual-boot (or replace the OS), virtualization, or just build from source.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Here's a list of keywords. Just feed them to a generic Markov random sentence generator and you'll get your response: Gatekeeper, walled-garden App Store, iOSification, hardware obsolescence in 4-5 years, closed-source, GPL, soldered RAM and SSD and battery, overpriced, eye-candy, skeuomorphism, big brother, reality-distortion-field. I don't want to be a jerk or offend "alberich", but I strongly disagree with him.
  - alberich 14y ago
    That's ok, I believe we can agree to disagree :)

paulgb 14y ago

The comment was made about an iOS device, which it is more applicable too. Apple has a monopoly on legit iOS App distribution, where Android tablets and phones can install apps from the wild. It may sound like a small point, but the feeling that I didn't own my iPhone is a big reason I prefer Android.

axxl 14y ago
Long time ago I had an ibook g4. Supposedly it was very nice back then, and very pricey too. However, after playing with it sometime, it just looked cute. Overpriced and cute. Apple products are a jail that looks very nice, but its a jail anyway. He comments first about the laptops. About laptops before the Mac App Store even...
Zirro 14y ago
I can agree with it in the case of an iOS-device, but in this case he said "Long time ago I had an ibook g4". I am starting to get pretty tired of hearing that the products I use every day for professional work are toys, that I gave up my freedom to use them and worship Apple etc etc.
- Dramatize 14y ago
  I agree. I was a Windows user for most of my life. Now that Apple products are better, I'll use them. If something else comes along that's new and better, I'll use that.
  - joelhooks 14y ago
    Exactly. I don't pick my tools based on dogma. I like to have the best tools I can afford when I need them.
nirvana 14y ago
> Apple has a monopoly on legit iOS App distribution, I know why you think that, but you're missing that there is a completely legitimate app distribution mechanism outside the AppStore. You can install (and distribute) whatever apps you want for iOS devices, and users can download them from the web and install them on the device. And I'm not talking about jailbreaking. Since the first day the iPhone has shipped, you've been able to download and install apps built with javascript from anywhere on the web. These are full apps, written in Javascript and running on the machine. They have access to the iOS design components such as the navigation controller and tab bar UI, etc, can read touches and orientation and even your current location. You can turn off the network- put the device in airport mode- and they still run. These aren't links to web apps running on the web, they are full apps. Apple only curates what goes on in the App Store. Apps distributed outside the App Store are not curated. Apple built this platform for apps specifically so it wouldn't have to curate them. Its just that once the App Store came out, everyone switched to writing native apps (And at the time, writing native apps are what people were clamoring for) that that native app distirbution model won out. But the javascript app platform is still there on the device and completely un-regulated by apple. It's also still supported by Apple, and each year at WWDC they have a couple sessions talking about it. I know it fits some people's ideology better to believe that Apple will only let you run apps approved by Apple on your device, but it simply isn't true. Further, if you want native apps of arbitrary origin, you can join the developer program and run whatever native apps you want. But Apple has always allowed this other distribution mechanism. These apps can't spread malware and so there is no need to regulate them. Since native apps can, they need to be curated, hence the AppStore. It is disingenuous for people to pretend like Apple only wants you to buy apps from the AppStore-- because the javascript app platform has existed since a year before the AppStore and they continue to maintain it.