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> Don't get me wrong; I'm actually considering making a similar move but more for business reasons (some of our German customers really don't like US hosting co

> Don't get me wrong; I'm actually considering making a similar move but more for business reasons (some of our German customers really don't like US hosting companies) than for cost savings There will be a new AWS European Sovereign Cloud[1] with the goal of being completely US independent and 100% compliant with EU law and regulations. [1]: https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/aws/aws-plans-to-invest-7-8-billion-into-the-aws-european-sovereign-cloud https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/aws/aws-plans-to-invest-7-8-...

toomuchtodo 1y ago
There are still US AWS people the US gov can apply pressure to. Sovereignty requires nothing on US soil, people, infrastructure, entities, etc. What Microsoft and AWS are doing is performance art around “EU sovereignty.”
jjani 1y ago
> There will be a new AWS European Sovereign Cloud[1] with the goal of being completely US independent The idea that anything branded AWS can possibly be US independent when push comes to shove is of course pure fantasy.
- randomtoast 1y ago
  I don't know, with that argument you can argue that everything is dependent on everything, for instance, the EU automobile industry is hugely dependent on materials and chips from all over the world including US and thus real independence is a pipe dream.
  - jjani 1y ago
    > I don't know, with that argument you can argue that everything is dependent on everything It is. And China have been the only ones intelligent enough to have understood this very long ago. They also show that while entire independence on their scale may be a pipe dream, getting close to it is feasible.
  - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
    This is one of the reasons we were wondering if the US can switch off our fighter jets. The ones we own, brought from the US. The US clearly state that extraterritoriality is fine with them. Depending on the company, one gag order is enough to sabotage a whole company.
  - owebmaster 1y ago
    Of course you know, the US government can use many methods to enforce their demand, it makes no sense to use an Amazon alternative to Amazon, it's such a nonsense to join a conversation about migrating away from Amazon suggesting that.
- ozim 1y ago
  But it will check boxes on compliance checklist.
  - wqaatwt 1y ago
    Not on the “political concerns” checklist which is getting more and more important
- toast0 1y ago
  It's not really the brand that's the problem. If Amazon partnered with an actually independent European company, provided the software and training, and the independent company set it up and ran it; in case of dispute, Amazon could pull the branding and future software updates, but they wouldn't be able to access customer data without consent and assistance of the other company and the other company would be unlikely to provide that for requests that were contrary to European law. It would still be branded AWS for Europe, and nobody would doubt its independence. This way, where it's all subsidiaries of Amazon can't be trusted though.
  - jjani 1y ago
    I can guarantee that if you read your comment with Amazon substituted for Huawei, you'd object against the okayness of that arrangement. Same thing.
zius 1y ago
Our customers across EU (hospitals) are not impressed or interested (n=175). Such a delusional project. The ICC move by MS made hospitals go in an even higher gear to prepare off-ramp plans. From private Azure cloud to “let’s get out”

toomuchtodo 1y ago

There are still US AWS people the US gov can apply pressure to. Sovereignty requires nothing on US soil, people, infrastructure, entities, etc. What Microsoft and AWS are doing is performance art around “EU sovereignty.”

jjani 1y ago

> There will be a new AWS European Sovereign Cloud[1] with the goal of being completely US independent The idea that anything branded AWS can possibly be US independent when push comes to shove is of course pure fantasy.

randomtoast 1y ago
I don't know, with that argument you can argue that everything is dependent on everything, for instance, the EU automobile industry is hugely dependent on materials and chips from all over the world including US and thus real independence is a pipe dream.
- jjani 1y ago
  > I don't know, with that argument you can argue that everything is dependent on everything It is. And China have been the only ones intelligent enough to have understood this very long ago. They also show that while entire independence on their scale may be a pipe dream, getting close to it is feasible.
- BrandoElFollito 1y ago
  This is one of the reasons we were wondering if the US can switch off our fighter jets. The ones we own, brought from the US. The US clearly state that extraterritoriality is fine with them. Depending on the company, one gag order is enough to sabotage a whole company.
- owebmaster 1y ago
  Of course you know, the US government can use many methods to enforce their demand, it makes no sense to use an Amazon alternative to Amazon, it's such a nonsense to join a conversation about migrating away from Amazon suggesting that.
ozim 1y ago
But it will check boxes on compliance checklist.
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  Not on the “political concerns” checklist which is getting more and more important
toast0 1y ago
It's not really the brand that's the problem. If Amazon partnered with an actually independent European company, provided the software and training, and the independent company set it up and ran it; in case of dispute, Amazon could pull the branding and future software updates, but they wouldn't be able to access customer data without consent and assistance of the other company and the other company would be unlikely to provide that for requests that were contrary to European law. It would still be branded AWS for Europe, and nobody would doubt its independence. This way, where it's all subsidiaries of Amazon can't be trusted though.
- jjani 1y ago
  I can guarantee that if you read your comment with Amazon substituted for Huawei, you'd object against the okayness of that arrangement. Same thing.

zius 1y ago

Our customers across EU (hospitals) are not impressed or interested (n=175). Such a delusional project. The ICC move by MS made hospitals go in an even higher gear to prepare off-ramp plans. From private Azure cloud to “let’s get out”